Author Topic: Communication  (Read 9296 times)

deBeauxOs

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Re: General Bitching and Moaning
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2008, 11:47:05 AM »
It means that the label "general bitchiness and moaning" has been awarded to my comments and to those that follow.

deBeauxOs

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Re: General Bitching and Moaning
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2008, 11:53:18 AM »
I meant followed, as in the thread where I posted the original comment.  Thus, all those comments are included in the label you provided.

Mandos

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Re: General Bitching and Moaning
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2008, 11:54:53 AM »
I have to agree with dBO that it was bad politics to put a discussion based on her complaint (regardless of who responded to it) into a thread with this lightly dismissive a title.

vmichel

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Re: General Bitching and Moaning
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2008, 11:57:06 AM »
This here is a fine example of "dismissiveness," I am sorry to say.

deBeauxOs

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Re: General Bitching and Moaning
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2008, 11:57:24 AM »
Mandos, I don't know what 'bad politics' means for you, but for me, that labelling was insulting and belittling.

deBeauxOs

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Re: General Bitching and Moaning
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2008, 12:00:07 PM »
Debra, you could have asked me what title was appropriate.  Obviously, you think both of your suggestions are.

eta: The post that I responded to was deleted.

Mandos

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Re: General Bitching and Moaning
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2008, 12:01:35 PM »
By "bad politics" i mean, "bad human relations".

I'm still myself not entirely sure how we got to this point, and I'd like to try to un-get here, and I'm not sure this title is helping.

Mandos

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Re: Title to be announced
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2008, 12:03:29 PM »
Just call it "Human relations among BnR members" or something.  The main discussion has been primarily about dBO feeling belittled but it may not necessarily only be about that, so I think my title is a neutral-enough moniker.

Mandos

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Re: Whatever (previously General Bitching and Moaning)
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2008, 12:08:58 PM »
I still don't think this is a great choice.  I think we should completely remove the original title of this thread, because it becomes a pebble in this discussion's foot.

vmichel

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Re: General Bitching and Moaning
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2008, 12:11:06 PM »
Whoa. Debra, as I said in my post above: I am happy here, and had no complaints about you and what you do here (present thread excepted -- this surprised me).

But I am reading something heartfelt and extremely well thought-out from dbo, who I also respect, and who I think has a point. Again, NOT about you personally, but about the general atmosphere and dynamic of the discussion, which (again) is NOT something you control or something that I would hold you responsible for.

I appreciate all that you have done to run this board.

I also appreciate dbo's willingness to be a little vulnerable here and express some hard feelings that are worth saying in an effort to clear the air.

ETA -- ok, the post I responded to was deleted, so I am not sure what to do with this one now... I am cutting part out that was a response to the deleted post, since it doesn't really make any sense now...

deBeauxOs

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Re: Communication (previously General Bitching and Moaning)
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2008, 12:12:53 PM »
You're right Mandos.  When the posts were moved into a new thread, it was labeled General Bitching and Moaning.  I'll change it to Communication. Period.

Mandos

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Re: Communication
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2008, 12:18:05 PM »
Now I'm confused as to who was owning the title.

So, having had my share of disagreements with skdadl, if you want to use her as an example, well, like many Internet arguers, myself included, she likes to write forcefully on some topics.  I appreciate that, and so I would never have felt *personally* insulted if skdadl wrote that to me, and if it had descended further I'd have dished it out in kind :)  But I guess it is possible that we do have personality clashes and style clashes and differing tolerance levels around here.  It's really hard to predict and manage that, and I think that skdadl didn't really intend to insult you but, as she says, she thought it was a standard political argument.

deBeauxOs

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Re: Communication
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2008, 12:39:48 PM »
Mandos, that was one example.  TD asked me twice what my motive was, and so I provided an example to illustrate my point.

I have been involved in debating tournaments.  I know the drill, how arguments are constructed, and how strategy is not intended to demolish the opponent as an individual, but to undermine their arguments.

Here's the thing.  Many people who attended the debates did so to learn more about the issues.  But they would never, never participate in a debate because some of the debaters ever so slightly crossed the line and insinuated that the opponent were idiots or dupes for advancing such arguments.

I know that rhetorical style.  I use it almost every time that I post at Birth Pangs because one of the explicit purpose of that blog is to hold up the abortion criminalizers and fetus fetishists up to ridicule.

Certain debate, argument or discussion styles present a double edged sword.  Wield the sharp edge knowingly against people who are allies, colleagues or friends to score a point, you take the risk of alienating them.  And people in that mode no longer listen nor learn.

Mandos

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Re: Communication
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2008, 12:43:13 PM »
True, though some of us learned that habit early on.  I was a USENET warrior from way back and it took me a long time to learn a more neutral tone because the normal one on the mean streets of USENET was "demolish".

anne cameron

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Re: Communication
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2008, 12:47:54 PM »
Maybe we should call it "General Meltdown" or "Crash and Burn B'n'R style" or... with posts deleted it is impossible to know WTF

It's educational , but it's also...very sad.

 

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