Author Topic: Afghanistan  (Read 58020 times)

skdadl

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« on: October 07, 2006, 12:54:48 PM »
The fortieth Canadian soldier has died in Afghanistan.

The U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan -- always misconceived, imho, although I would agree that some more intelligent response to 9/11 was necessary -- began five years ago today.

kuri

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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2006, 02:23:27 PM »
Wow. Doesn't seem like that long to me.

I feel like I've lost my bearings for understanding the conflict there. I have somethings bookmarked to read, but they're long and my flesh and blood world is depriving me of the headspace to really get what's going on. I get that there's the strategic connections with Iran, Pakistan and others, but still don't have all the "whys" straight. Perhaps once I get the "whys" for the US, I'll get the "whys" for Canada.... anyone know where the coles notes version can be found?

skdadl

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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2006, 02:33:02 PM »
My Coles Notes version:

The Americans have three military bases in Baluchistan. They are already sneaking over the border into Iran on little missions, and of course they are preparing for a big mission.

To do all that, they need to be making their quiet arrangements with Musharraf. Musharraf has his own problems in Baluchistan and Waziristan,  and the Americans are willing to be understanding with him on those scores. Translation: they don't care whether the games that Musharraf is playing in the border regions are hurting the NATO forces in Afghanistan, who are, so far as I can tell, mainly diversionary anyway as far as the Americans are concerned.

kuri

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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 02:44:00 PM »
OK, so where to they get the boots for a big mission in Iran when they can't even recruit enough to reach their targets for Iraq?

(I mean, I guess the short answer to that question is they haven't thought that far. But that's also a pretty scary answer, even if one were to accept the fear they have a nuclear Iran (as I've said before, I think a nuclear Iran would make the region more stable rather than less)).

skdadl

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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2006, 03:00:18 PM »
It's my understanding that they are not intending an actual Iraq-style invasion of Iran. They are going to bomb. Cheney wants nuclear. We'll see.

I'm not quite sure what the attraction of sneaking in over the border(s) is, although I think there is a theory that if a few bombs do their work (on nuclear facilities, perhaps some targeted assassinations of the leadership), then the reformers will rise up in revolt against the leadership.

If that's the theory, then we have to assume that they are already helping to create opposition covertly.And of course they do have the MEK sitting on one part of the border with Iraq.

kuri, I'm not saying all this is a good idea or even makes sense. I just see that it makes Cheney-Rumsfeld sense. I think that's how they are thinking.

From all I've read, the leading Iranian reformers do not want any of this and will not support it. But Cheney-Rumsfeld ran on their own fantasies about Iraq last time, so there's no reason they won't try the same thing with Iran.

Boom Boom

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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2006, 03:18:08 PM »
I very much doubt there will a full-scale invasion of Iran. I agree with the assessment that the US will bomb the place back to the stone age, especially Iran's military and nuclear facilities. The end result will be even more hostility to the West. Never underestimate the idiocy of the current US Administration. :x

lagatta

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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2006, 10:17:45 AM »
As per skdadl's request, please post comments about the 40th Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan
 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/10/0 ... illed.html as well as all the other casualties, on this thread.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

skdadl

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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2006, 10:22:00 AM »
Not that I expect their plans to work any better than any others have, but I don't believe the Cheney-Rumsfeld plan is to bomb the whole country "back to the Stone Age," Boom Boom.

We hear talk of targeted strikes, and then this (fantastical, I think) belief that the Iranian people will rise up against their own leaders.

Remember how the Iraqis were expected to do that?

I think it will just add to the general chaos. Musharraf is facing lots of rising resistance from several directions in Pakistan. The Americans are poking away at a nightmare, I fear.

Boom Boom

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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2006, 10:23:50 AM »
By comparsion, a week ago the president of Pakistan said his country had lost 400 soldiers in the war against terra, and on the weekend the TO Star reportedhat Iraq has lost 4000 police, killed since 2003. If we're this upset over losing 40 soldiers, what will be the number of soldiers killed that convinces this country to finally pull out of Afganistan?

anne cameron

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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 10:57:15 AM »
Boomer, unfortunately "this country" won't make the decision to pull out of Afghanistan until "that country" gives the tubby boy the order to do it.

I'm reading an article on the US bombing of Cambodia during the VietNam genocide, and I can only read bits of it at a time.  I just can't sit down and read the whole thing, the nest of snakes begins to squirm and I wind up so upset I can barely remember to breathe.

This bullshit business of going over borders and doing "black ops" crap is like poking a wasps nest.  And if the whole mad pack of them gets caught and either killed in a shootout or captured the fat is in the fire and the war mutts have their "excuse" for all out carpet bombing.

I can't imagine what it must be like to be a US citizen, raised on all the flag waving bumph and the "only in America" self congratulation, and grow up thinking you are blessed with Freedom and Democracy and all things good and then finding out  just how pernicious the foreign policy has been.  The disillusionment must be paralyzing.

If they use new-you-luhr weapons, of course, the contamination will be such they won't have to put "boots on the ground", they'll poison the population.  And eventually the rest of us.

I understand you're a hit man...how much would I have to raise to hire you to head off to WARshington and do a few little jobbies for me?  Would it be cheaper to get a group rate?  I'll come along with you, Boomer, and, like, I don't know, carry the gat and the ammunition.  Hell, Boom, I'll even fire a few shots myself.

Wanna partner?

And wouldnt' that make a film...the old fogeys hit squad, coming out of retirement... heh heh heh

brebis noire

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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006, 11:04:23 AM »
I just heard that the Canadian Army is recruiting in schools - my brother says they are recruiting at Concordia. I admit I didn't think we would stoop to this, but I shouldn't be surprised with our New Government, eh.   :(

Link to War Recruiting in Schools: http://www.bbcf.ca/_articles/recruitschool.htm

Toedancer

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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2006, 07:50:53 AM »
This is from an older article from Sept. (Australia News)

Quote
In the hour of NATO's greatest need, Australia will, this month, withdraw its most highly trained combat troops: the 200-strong special forces task group that has spent a year harrying the Taliban in Oruzgan and neighbouring areas in concert with US and British forces.

From October the Australian contribution to the fight in Afghanistan will comprise a 400-strong reconstruction group which will form part of a Dutch-led provincial reconstruction team in mountainous Oruzgan.

As British and Canadian troops continue to fight and die in significant numbers (the British have lost 35 personnel since July) the formidable Australian special forces are coming home. While their own troops are engaged in heavy fighting in southern Afghanistan, US and British commanders could be forgiven for querying the extent of the Australian commitment to this vital theatre in the war on terror.


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 61,00.html

So my question is Where are the rest of the United nations? Where are the troops from Germany, Italy and France? Why are Canadian soldiers taking the brunt of the insurgent battles?
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

anne cameron

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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2006, 11:18:24 AM »
I understand the opium crop this year is so big there is worry in some circles the surplus will drive down the street value.

We were sent in to free up US boots so they could be transferred to Iran, where Dubya seems to have completely lost the war, the hearts and minds of the people, and the whole country.

For the Taliban to have accomplished the resurgence and to be as effective as they are they have to be getting a lot of support from the people.  I have no love for the Taliban or their repression and their savagery but dammit if that's what the people prefer....

Probably they just do not want foreigners in uniform and with guns walking around in their country, ostensibly "in charge" of things.

We'll lose more troops before Steve gets the order from Dubya to withdraw.  And he doesn't have the guts to withdraw without Dubya's blessing!

skdadl

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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2006, 04:44:26 PM »
Scores of civilians believed killed in southern Afghanistan by NATO raids:

BBC report

Guardian report

From the BBC:

Quote
They said that several houses were hit, and civilians killed.

Villagers told the BBC Pashto service that the bodies of many locals had been pulled from the rubble of their homes after the raids and buried.

"Twenty members of my family are killed and 10 are injured," one survivor said. "The injured are in Mirwais hospital in Kandahar city and anybody can go and see them.

"For God's sake, come and see our situation."

Another man said women and children were among 15 members of his family who had been killed.

"The airplanes came and were bombing until 3 am. And, in the morning, they started hitting our village with mortars and rockets. They didn't allow anybody to come to our help."

...

A spokesman for the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf), Maj Luke Knittig, was unable to confirm the high death tolls.

But he told reporters in Kabul: "Very sadly, civilians continue to get caught up in these engagements with tragic results.

"We are helping Afghan leaders there fly over the area to make an assessment."

Nato spokesman Mark Laity told the same news briefing that Taleban fighters often used locals as "human shields", and the alliance made every effort to minimise civilian casualties.

A Taleban statement sent to the BBC said none of the movement's fighters had been killed in the Panjwayi clashes, and that any deaths were civilian.

President Hamid Karzai has been under mounting pressure over civilian deaths and has urged foreign forces to exercise more caution.


God. The "human shields" excuse again. Where have we heard that one before?

anne cameron

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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2006, 06:10:24 PM »
...how does that song go..god keep our land...glorious and free...



Now Steve can join the huffenpuffers brigade with Dubya and Kissinger.

 

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