Author Topic: Fun with Henry and Christopher  (Read 4527 times)

skdadl

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« on: October 08, 2006, 01:05:47 PM »
Christopher Hitchens on the revelation in Bob Woodward's new book that Bush calls up Kissinger for chats all the time.

Just in case you can't tell from the subtitle of his article, Hitchens detests Kissinger -- "Will we never be free of the malign effect of this little gargoyle?"
 :D

I must say, Woodward's claim, much discussed in the media this last week, surprised me a bit too. As Hitchens says, the neo-cons who have had such influence on Cheney-Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz above all, have made a point in the past of differentiating their ideology from Kissinger's "realist" approach to foreign policy. (I know: hold your gagging for a moment.)

But I think that Hitchens is exaggerating the genuine difference in world-views, mainly because he likes -- he rilly likes -- the neo-cons and he simply detests Kissinger. In fact the differences among them are pretty much tactical, I should think. They all share a generally American imperial world-view, and even at a strategic level, in terms of the next country that would be on their hit lists, they wouldn't be so far apart.

Still. It's always fun to watch Hitchens pop his cork.  :D

kuri

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2006, 01:09:36 PM »
Kissinger is not a Realist. Most Realists were very critical of his foreign policy choices.

Kenneth Waltz is a much better example of Realism.

skdadl

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2006, 01:17:43 PM »
Oh, I have never taken any of them very seriously as thinkers, except in the sense that they were in positions of power and therefore capable of putting their murderous "ideas" into play.

But there is a strain of conservatism -- well, there are several -- within the Repub party that has held itself apart from the "vulcans," become very critical of them, and I had long associated Kissinger with them. So the politics of his chats with Bush made me wonder, although I also don't take much that Bob Woodward reports all that seriously either.

Holly Stick

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2006, 01:30:52 PM »
A couple of other views on Kissinger:

Helen Thomas:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1007-24.htm
Quote
...To make his point, Kissinger gave Gerson a copy of a memo he had written to President Nixon on Sept. 10, 1969.

"Withdrawal of U.S. troops will become like salted peanuts to the American public. The more U.S. troops come home, the more will be demanded," he wrote.

"It will become harder and harder to maintain the morale of those who remain, not to speak of their mothers," he said...

and Molly Ivins:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1006-25.htm
Quote
The Old War Criminal is back. I try not to hold grudges, but I must admit I have never lost one ounce of rancor toward Henry Kissinger, that cynical, slithery, self-absorbed pathological liar. He has all the loyalty and principle of Charles Talleyrand, whom Napoleon described as “a piece of dung in a silk stocking.”

Come to think of it, Talleyrand looks pretty good compared to Kissinger, who always aspired to be Metternich (a 19th century Austrian diplomat). Just count the number of Americans and Vietnamese who died between 1969 and 1973, and see if you can find any indication he ever gave a damn...
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sparqui

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2006, 03:53:14 PM »
I just adore Molly Iven's words:

Quote
...I have never lost one ounce of rancor toward Henry Kissinger, that cynical, slithery, self-absorbed pathological liar. He has all the loyalty and principle of Charles Talleyrand, whom Napoleon described as “a piece of dung in a silk stocking.” ...
If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor. -- Gilles Duceppe

beluga2

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2006, 06:09:27 PM »
Squirm, Hitchy, squirm!  :D

Gotta hand it to him, though: nobody does hyperbole quite like the Besotted Brit:

Quote
For the analogy to hold, we should have to find that while this militant rhetoric was being deployed in public a sellout, and a scuttle was being prepared behind the scenes. We are not fighting the Viet Cong in Iraq but the Khmer Rouge. A bungled withdrawal would lead to another Cambodia, not another Vietnam.


Yoiks! All that's standing between Iraqis and a new "autogenocide" is a few brave troops from Kansas! :shock:  :roll:

Interesting that his greatest fear is that H the K might, for his own cynical reasons, accede to the wishes of almost the entire population of Iraq and pull the hell out. Poor widdle warmonger Hitch. The thought of losing his chance to fight the good fight against "Islamofascism" through his keyboard must keep him awake at nights.

skdadl

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2006, 06:58:44 AM »
Yeah! That passage got my eyebrows right up too, beluga. Iraq is Cambodia? What on earth has the man been ... imbibing?

I honestly don't understand Hitchens' motives, although I enjoy the verbal excess -- sometimes. I think he is now too far gone in his anger to write as well as he used to, though. He probably recognizes that too, which would just fuel the anger. Sad, really.

Holly Stick

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2006, 12:22:03 AM »
Here is a different view of what Kissinger is up to:
http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/30895.html

Quote
...Neo-con ideology is out, Metternich is in.

Brigham, who lectured at the Army War College last Friday, says that Secretary of State Rice has adopted a Kissingerian 19th century balance-of-power approach to Iraq starkly at odds with the administration's democratic rhetoric in the first term. It's 1815 again, he says, referring to the Congress of Vienna, with Condoleezza Rice playing the part of Austrian Foreign Minister Metternich. Brigham's thesis is that Rice apparently has decided that the only way out of Iraq is for the United States to work covertly in league with Iran and Syria in the hope that they can control the chief groups of insurgents. In exchange for their help, he says, Rice is likely promising Iran and Syria through back channels the chance to become regional major players with American help...
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skdadl

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Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2006, 06:17:15 AM »
All that is very possible, and I suppose it would be better than the public position the Bush admin continue to hold.

I wonder how firmly the opposing view is still held, though, the Cheney-Rumsfeld hawkish position towards all three of those countries, and how fierce the tension between the hawks and Rice.

Toedancer

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Re: Fun with Henry and Christopher
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 12:23:56 AM »
hello darkness my old friend
Christopher Hitchens has died.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2011/12/In-Memoriam-Christopher-Hitchens-19492011
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 12:32:23 AM by Toedancer »
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

 

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