Author Topic: Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique  (Read 9528 times)

deBeauxOs

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« on: November 21, 2006, 03:11:33 PM »
Rien sur la situation actuelle au Liban?  :?  L'assassinat du ministre de l'Industrie, Pierre Gemayel, soulève l'indignation au Liban et dans le monde, en français. Industry Minister Pierre Gemayel, a prominent anti-Syrian politician, has been fatally shot while driving through a Christian suburb of Beirut, in English.

skdadl

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2006, 03:14:22 PM »
Uh oh.

I shall return after I read that, but that is serious.

skdadl

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2006, 03:43:20 PM »
Well, we need to know more.

People might remember the Phalange from the massacre at Sabra and Shatila -- I don't know how closely implicated the Gemayels may have been in that slaughter, but I go to find out.

But really, anyone could have done this. The major destabilization of Lebanon this year was done by Israel, the U.S., and the UK, so I wouldn't listen to the boilerplate coming out of Washington. I wouldn't defend the Syrians either, though.

deBeauxOs

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2006, 03:54:16 PM »
Quote from: skdadl
Well, we need to know more. ... But really, anyone could have done this. The major destabilization of Lebanon this year was done by Israel, the U.S., and the UK, so I wouldn't listen to the boilerplate coming out of Washington. ...
Tout à fait ce que je pensais.  L'individu en question est une cible évidente, et son assassinat se prête à autant de théories sur les auteurs de l'acte qu'il y a de partis intéressés à maintenir le Liban dans un état d'instabilité.  Ce sera intéressant de voir lesquels s'opposent à nouveau à toute enquête officielle.  Bien que ceci ne prouve rien, non plus.  

La devise, 'Les ennemis de mes ennemis sont mes amis' n'est pas toujours juste dans un environnement de confrontations qui durent depuis des siècles et dont les alliances opportunistes se multiplient.

lagatta

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2006, 03:55:40 PM »
Ce Pierre Gemayel avait 9 ou 10 ans lors des massacres de Sabra et Chatila, donc même si son clan était impliqué, il aurait pu évoluer. Malgré tout, les multiples factions politiques, sociales et confessionnelles avaient commencé a collaborer dans une certaine mesure pour assurer la reconstruction du pays.

Je pense qu'il était assez à droite; cela dit, un autre assassinat n'arrangera en rien les choses au Liban.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

skdadl

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2006, 04:14:02 PM »
Multiplying opportunistic alliances -- well, they have certainly had those.

It was indeed my impression  -- gathered from a very long distance, of course -- that the Lebanese factions had been working co-operatively and that the war this summer had raised respect for Hezbollah even among the Christian and other anti-Syrian factions.

Who benefits from this? I don't know whether they did it, but I should think the Israelis and the Americans are entirely pleased that this has happened.

deBeauxOs

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2006, 04:21:11 PM »
Quote from: skdadl
... Who benefits from this? I don't know whether they did it, but I should think the Israelis and the Americans are entirely pleased that this has happened.
Voilà ... il y a content et il y a satisfait ...  :banghead   Malheureusement, je suis assez cynique pour imaginer que les Américains sont loin d'avoir les mains propres, dans tout ceci.

skdadl

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2006, 06:20:38 PM »
The Lebanese are blogging.

You can get to a number of Lebanese blogs from that Guardian link. Apparently these sites began to build international communities this past summer. It will be interesting to watch them.

lagatta

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2006, 06:42:47 PM »
Here is an interesting trilingual Canadian site:

http://tadamon.resist.ca/index.php

Don't see anything specific on the assassination yet, though there will be.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

deBeauxOs

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2006, 07:08:16 PM »
Quote from: skdadl
The Lebanese are blogging. You can get to a number of Lebanese blogs from that Guardian link. Apparently these sites began to build international communities this past summer. It will be interesting to watch them.
Merci lagatta et skdadl pour ces suggestions.  J'ai trouvé un site qui permet de faire le lien entre cet événementet ceux passés, ici.  Lisons ce que les gens du Liban et ailleurs ont affiché, revenons pour en discuter au fur et à mesure que la situation évolue.

lagatta

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2006, 08:45:44 AM »
Voici ce que Robert Fisk a écrit: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fis ... 004230.ece

Il habite le Liban. Désolant de contempler un si beau pays qui risque de retomber dans l'horreur de la guerre civile... :(
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

skdadl

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2006, 09:11:33 AM »
I was a bit puzzled by Fisk's reading (reflected as well in the Independent's leader) of the situation.

It is true that there are those in Washington -- in the intelligence communities especially -- who have been pressing more and more for a diplomatic approach to both Syria and Iran. Those people and others will have been supporting the tripartite summit (Iran, Syria, and Iraq) as a way of allowing the U.S. to exit from Iraq.

But as we know from Seymour Hersh and many others, there is also a powerful war party in the White House, led by Dick Cheney, who are gung ho to destabilize both Syria and Iran -- in fact, they're already doing that. They already have their tame dissident Syrians and tame dissident Iranians lined up, just as they had their tame dissident Iraqis in 2002, and they are making secret forays into Iran from Baluchistan.

So I dunno. Fisk and the Independent may tilt the way they do because Blair is trying  to reinforce the diplomacy-seekers. I don't think I'm quite that sanguine about their chances.

skdadl

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2006, 01:59:15 PM »
A fine column on the issue today from Juan Cole.

Quote
Israeli policy was in part to attempt to divide and conquer the Lebanese by making the reform government of Fuad Seniora attempt to disarm Hizbullah, which maintains a small paramilitary force of 3,000 to 5,000. The Lebanese government is too weak to take on Hizbullah, but members of the March 14th reform movement did lay the blame for the war at its feet.

As a result, Hizbullah has pulled out of the government. With Gemayel's assassination, the government will fall if it loses even one more cabinet minister. Worse, the society has now been economically devastated by Israeli bombing raids and is increasingly polarized. The Olmert government's plan for the second Lebanese civil war seems increasingly plausible. Syria has stupidly played into Israel's hands in this regard. The Lebanese themselves are in danger of once again allowing themselves to be used as proxies by people like Bush and Asad and Olmert. The positive achievements of the national unity government of summer-fall 2005 have been undone. Lebanon is on the brink.


His introduction to this column, a scathing summary of Bush's failed methods in the Middle East, is a wonder to read.

gunnar gunnarson

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2006, 12:01:04 AM »
Quote from: skdadl
People might remember the Phalange from the massacre at Sabra and Shatila -- I don't know how closely implicated the Gemayels may have been in that slaughter, but I go to find out.


Pretty deeply, I would think.  It was only weeks after Bashir Gemayel, who was going to be Israel's local enforcer, got hisself blowed up real good.  Perhaps his pals didn't want to wait till their vengeance could be served cold. :roll:

skdadl

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Le Liban: un autre assassinat politique
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2006, 06:58:55 AM »
The detailed history is only slowly coming back to me as I read about the pundits. Through the Guardian, I've been checking out several Lebanese blogs, but the more I read, the more I realize that most are tilting at least a bit rightwards. The left analyses I can find are still coming mainly from North Americans and Europeans.

 

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