Author Topic: Because We Are Women  (Read 65244 times)

deBeauxOs

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Because We Are Women
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2007, 06:42:50 PM »
Quote from: lagatta
Oh, they are just covert Self-Hating Men.
Hah!  That reminds me of self-rising flour .... uh-oh .... nemmind.

:whis:

fern hill

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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2007, 09:13:22 AM »
*bump* (because rereading made me feel a little better)

fern hill

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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2007, 10:16:44 AM »
Read Dave at Galloping Beaver. Warning: you'll cry.

GDKitty

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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2007, 11:21:07 AM »
Ugh :(
The post at Whedonesque is painfully good. Thanks, fh.

Quote
Her face was nothing but red.


I was reading about Dua last night, and trying to figure out why CNN aired her killing.  (Not sure if the footage was shown onn US CNN or CNN International).

Deborah Ann Dilley at Global Voices provides a great deal of analysis and background.

Croghan27

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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 11:22:53 AM »
Quote from: fern hill
Read Dave at Galloping Beaver. Warning: you'll cry.


I read on a supposed 'christian' website about how peaceful the Yazidi faith was. It is very old, closely related to the Manachians that St. Augustine spent hs life first belonging to, then trying to defeat as heresy.

It was used as an example how the gentle people are brutilized by the Muslems, both Sunni and Shi'ite.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Toedancer

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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2007, 11:36:35 AM »
I saw that earlier and could not watch the video. Altho I do believe people who only discuss 'lawns' (from another thread and well put) need to watch it. My imagination is simply too vivid, a hardwired female brain that knows my emotions will be overtaken by total rage.

Violence against women worldwide seems to go UP during war and conflicts. A free pass to abuse and kill women and children and any man who tries to protect them 'seems' encouraged by the coalition boots on the ground. And of course already well ingrained into various cultures regardless of conflict and war.

Personally I see this entire subject as a World Health Issue affecting every being on the planet. No doubt WHO has put money towards studies, objectives, conclusions, but there is no will to Condem It Loudly, many guvs see it as the product of war. What is missing in the neanderthal thinking of even our more-enlightened guvs is there is very real Vicarious Trauma experienced by women and children in war free countries. Is there any correlation between domestic abuse/killing increasing in war-free countries as a result of world wide conflict and strife? I dunno, but it sure feels like it. Add fear to the mix and it 'seems' out of control.

I've never read anything about the root causes of hate towards women, but I would imagine the incredible resentment of women does partly stem from women's reproduction abilities in primordial ways, and the demand we control it for ourselves. Women for their part and here I am talking in war-free zones, don't even have much success in de-stigmatizing the longing for a living wage; something that would go very far empowering their voice. Off hand I can think of at least a thousand women (caregivers, disabled both mentally/physically) I'm in contact across the country with, who with a decent living wage would Rise Up. That is effectively interfered with by not only guv's but even NGO's who must tow a certain line for their funding.

This is so off topic and I apologize, but I just wanted to point out that Canada got a Mental Health Commission (arms-length)
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/nr ... 130_e.html

from witnesses in front of Senate Committees
SocialAffairsComm

that ranged from mental health abuses to physical abuses.

And it tried very hard to bring mental illness of any kind
OutOfTheShadow

or to De-Stigmatize it in a very real way. The mental commission has a mandate to de-stigmatize, now the world needs one for Women.

I see that as a template to bringing all of this hate towards women Out of The Shadows as well. It can be done. And that is where my hope lays.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

brebis noire

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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2007, 11:57:06 AM »
I read about that yesterday, I'm not sure if it was in the Guardian, and just knowing there's a video of it out there is bad enough for me.

I'm reading a trilogy with my kids right now based on the lives of girls and women in Afghanistan - The Breadwinner, Parvana's Journey and Mud City, by Deborah Ellis. It's not hard to see how decades of war and conflict change people and often bring out the worst, particularly in men - when 'their' women (I use that in the sense of their mothers (especially), sisters, etc.) are oppressed and damaged by wars and upheavals, it directly affects their own lives, and from the very start of course, and in so many ways you lose count. The books aren't graphic and do a very good job of keeping those kinds of horrors in the background, but it's a hard read anyways.

My older kid loves the books, they're really very well done and ring true for me, but of course he doesn't understand why the country is so dysfunctional. Even though I know some of the history, the fact that I can't adequately answer his questions, makes me conclude that I don't either, not really.

Berlynn

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« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2007, 12:39:07 PM »
My kids and I have also read that trilogy.  Very powerful stuff, isn't it?  I love that there are fantastic kids authors out there!

BTW, I've just posted a blurb about the Afghan Parliament
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

GDKitty

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« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2007, 12:48:19 PM »
Wow, Berlynn--you're a blogging juggernaut lately :D  Thanks for posting this. Red Jenny often posts about Joya too. It's both inspiring and horrifying, you know?

And thanks, brebis noire, for the book recommendation--I hadn't heard of that one before.

skdadl

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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2007, 01:56:30 PM »
Watching for you, Berlynn -- well done. The refusal of all the gassy men, here and there, to pay attention to Joya is severely depressing.

To me, what made joss's statement at Whedonesque so powerful was the perspective summed up in this line:

Quote
there is the staggering imbalance in the world that we all just take for granted.


And that is the truth. It isn't just men who take it for granted, either. This has seeped into our heads. Women do it to one another; women do it to themselves; women in every country do.

There are undoubtedly very valuable things to be said about the Yezidi culture in particular and the situation in southern Kurdistan at the moment, as about Afghanistan (and dozens of other devastated places).

But that "staggering imbalance" is here too, if better disguised in recent generations -- well, better disguised right up until some guy enraged that his woman refuses to behave like a proper piece of property decides to shoot her in the face.

Into my adult lifetime it was legal for men in Ontario to imprison their daughters for "immoral" behaviour (I'll look for the babble links). We know that women's equality is being challenged more and more, not less and less, in Canada currently, and also that anyone who says so out loud is more and more likely to be ridiculed for caring about women's liberation. Our gassy men care about women's equality only when it's someone else's women in question, eh? in some other country that our team happen to want to be demonizing so that they can stomp through it.

I become extremely uncomfortable when these stories are used to characterize cultures that our war-mongering leaders have targeted, usually cultures already severely deformed and traumatized by imperial adventures in the past. Two things are true: every culture has treated women as somehow deficient, somehow unfinished, as joss says. And if that deep truth is still expressed in radically more raw terms in some cultures than in others, that's mainly because wealthy Westerners have learned how to oppress in more subtle ways.

Berlynn

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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2007, 02:22:19 PM »
skdadl, you are one wise woman!

Yes, the imbalance is worldwide; it exists in every facet of life.  And, unless we root it out, it will remain.

I'm really miffed that the media aren't reporting the Joya story.  I'm hoping the Blogosphere will pick it up and run until the MSM can't ignore it.
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

brebis noire

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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2007, 02:22:30 PM »
Well the thing is - these awful things are happening over there and we're hearing about them now. It's hard to find comparatives here, except in marginalised society, and then it becomes a socioeconomic as much as gender issue - it gets confusing. And if we ignore them, and say nothing, then you know what they're gonna say: look at those privileged Western feminists, they avert their eyes and just don't see how they oppress women over there. It's been said, I'm not inventing anything.

The thing is, those of us who grew up in the 1970s and later don't have first-hand memories of those things. Our mums weren't telling us, for one reason or another, at least not everybody's mum was. Nobody ever told me about them until I was in university, and then I was suddenly able to understand what older women in Quebec were really saying about their lives. Before then, I would literally not have believed how women were treated as babymakers over here - mainly because things have changed so much as to be practically unrecognizable. I knew about the historical realities here in Quebec even before I really started to know about how things used to be for women in the 1960s and earlier elsewhere in North America.

And things have changed here. Whereas other places that have wanted to change - just look at Turkey, for example, haven't. The fact of Western economic oppression and hegemony can only take us so far, and then we hit a wall. Upheaval, rootlessness, environmental degradation, existential depression are all parts of that oppression, but don't necessarily explain why men in some cultures more than others treat women as chattel.

skdadl

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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2007, 02:41:23 PM »
Well, men in all cultures (not all men, no, but most) treat women as the Other, as something deficient and othered, as joss writes.

When you say, "treat women as chattel," you make it easier for people to single out cultures that are still agriculturally based (or very poor), because that is the metaphor they have for those who are othered -- servants or animals.

But I don't think I agree that it is only women in marginalized situations who are treated as somehow deficient or unfinished human beings in the West, although definitely the worst oppression is always the discounting of the very physical existence and life of some people, which we know has happened in Canada especially to aboriginal women and women who have taken to the streets to survive.

I don't know. I can accept my position in history: I lived at a time when I was not considered fully human by most of the people I knew, men especially but a lot of women too, women who didn't consider themselves fully human. It is in our heads; we haven't got past that manoeuvre, I don't think.

Toedancer

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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2007, 02:46:01 PM »
Who has the ovaries to say things like "parliament is a stable full of animals', or lawmakers are warlords or some parl. members are criminals and appoint leaders to commit war crimes?" I can't think of a soul. And would she be voted out of parliament because of it, would she be threatened to be raped because she spoke the truth?

Well at least Liberal MP Marlene Jennings said "I'm starting to wonder if it's not a cult."- referring to the Cons. That's the strongest word I've heard in awhile right here at home.

I wish to gawd we had a Joya right here at home. Unshackle women from the ineffective pink ribbons.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Berlynn

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« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2007, 02:51:55 PM »
Yes, every country needs a Joya, that's for sure.  I think we have a few potential Joyas in our midst, but too many are filled with fear of repercussions, so haven't quite become fully Joya.

And yes, I am still struggling to free myself from my patriarchal upbringing.  It's why I see a counsellor, to help me to continue on that path so that one day my daughter, or future generations of women will be fully emancipated.
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

 

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