Author Topic: Global Warming/Climate Change  (Read 162586 times)

lagatta

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« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2007, 08:56:27 AM »
Yes, that thing, skdadl. And I read the silly story by Wente about Ozzie and Harriet marriages (an expression that sounds very old, even to me)... and commented on it in the dead baby story.

In reference to Boom Boom's quote, does anyone here realise what it means to ask folks in say, Thailand, or worse, Indonesia or the Philippines, not to build in coastal areas? Just look a map. And those are very densely populated countries...

Even in wealthy but small and densely-populated countries such as the Netherlands, that is absolutely ludicrous.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

Berlynn

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« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2007, 09:43:44 AM »
Oy!  I read Wente's piece in the Focus section with my morning tea.  What a foolish, foolish way to start the morning!  

Then again, I suppose it's important to be forewarned.  I don't recall that she got into the IPCC report coming out of France this weekend but I'll expect she will downplay it somehow.

I have to admit, again, that I was impressed with Greenspon's long-overdue coversion to 'greening' the Glob&Maul, even though I know it's a ploy to sell more papers.
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

Boom Boom

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« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2007, 11:34:08 AM »
Quote from: lagatta
 In reference to Boom Boom's quote, does anyone here realise what it means to ask folks in say, Thailand, or worse, Indonesia or the Philippines, not to build in coastal areas? Just look a map. And those are very densely populated countries...


I get your drift, but Wente is right. There will be more catastrophe in coastal areas because ocean levels will increase and there isn't anything anyone can do to prevent that from happening. What they can do is what Wente mentions - build storm-surge defences. That actually should be a first priority in all those places lagatta mentions.

Berlynn

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« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2007, 11:53:40 AM »
So are you, like Wente, suggesting we should do so little as nothing to prevent the sea level from rising?
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

Boom Boom

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« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2007, 12:15:54 PM »
Quote from: Berlynn
So are you, like Wente, suggesting we should do so little as nothing to prevent the sea level from rising?


Ridiculous. She's suggesting nothing of the kind. She advocates capping the worse emitters - the oil and gas sector. That alone will be the greatest nullifier of Canada's greenhouse gases. She mentions that this should have been done long ago.

Holly Stick

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« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2007, 12:21:03 PM »
Quote from: skdadl
Thing? What thing?

You mean the new access to the G&M? That seems to be Holly Stick's discovery. It works.  :)
:spyglass Heh, heh.  I forget who posted it at babble a couple of years ago; I bookmarked it to read the letters to the editor.

I think that Wente is employing the sceptics' next strategy: to claim the middle ground and split up the scientists into "moderates" and "alarmists".  It's just like the rightwingers claiming to be moderate middle types, when they are really so far right they can hear the swastika flag flapping in the wind. (Partly quoting myself at babble)

Boom Boom, I have mentioned before that RealClimate reviewed Gore's movie and found the science to be mostly good, with some quibbles. RealClimate article on the NSTA business, including a link to the review, with an extensive discussion and other good links.

So when Wente writes:
Quote
...For the record, all these experts are highly critical of An Inconvenient Truth and the scary headlines that regularly sweep the media. (Climate alarmism sells, and the media know it.)..
I do not believe it; although I haven't checked on her "experts" yet.  I think Wente is trying to paint Gore as an extremist "alarmist", and the people like her who are too lazy to try to cut emissions as the new "moderates".

http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics analyzes all of the sceptics' arguments; and updates the page, apparently.

I got that link from DeSmogBlog, which has a couple of links about media and climate change; this one to the Star today:
http://www.desmogblog.com/toronto-star-looks-at-canadian-denial-machine

And
http://www.desmogblog.com/straight-goods-on-media-bias
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Holly Stick

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« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2007, 12:26:41 PM »
Quote from: Boom Boom
Quote from: Berlynn
So are you, like Wente, suggesting we should do so little as nothing to prevent the sea level from rising?

Ridiculous. She's suggesting nothing of the kind. She advocates capping the worse emitters - the oil and gas sector. That alone will be the greatest nullifier of Canada's greenhouse gases. She mentions that this should have been done long ago.
Fucking assholes like her are the reason it was not done long ago.
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

'lance

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« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2007, 12:28:02 PM »
Quote from: Boom Boom
Quote from: Berlynn
So are you, like Wente, suggesting we should do so little as nothing to prevent the sea level from rising?

Ridiculous. She's suggesting nothing of the kind. She advocates capping the worse emitters - the oil and gas sector. That alone will be the greatest nullifier of Canada's greenhouse gases. She mentions that this should have been done long ago.


Whatever she might say in any particular column, she's no more trustworthy on global warming than on anything else. She's followed a steady progression on this (and a predictable one, because exactly correlated with the talking points released on a regular basis by corporate mouthpieces and Astroturf organizations). To simplify:

1. It isn't happening.
2. Even if it is happening, it's normal variation, nothing to do with human activity.
3. It's happening, and human activity is partly to blame, but there's nothing we can do now about the worst effects.

Boom Boom

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« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2007, 12:56:31 PM »
Quote from: Holly Stick
Boom Boom, I have mentioned before that RealClimate reviewed Gore's movie and found the science to be mostly good, with some quibbles. RealClimate article on the NSTA business, including a link to the review, with an extensive discussion and other good links.


Yes, and if you go back and read my post, at the end, her comments on the Gore film are my main quibble with her column.

Berlynn

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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2007, 12:57:20 PM »
Quote from: 'lance
Whatever she might say in any particular column, she's no more trustworthy on global warming than on anything else. She's followed a steady progression on this (and a predictable one, because exactly correlated with the talking points released on a regular basis by corporate mouthpieces and Astroturf organizations). To simplify:

1. It isn't happening.
2. Even if it is happening, it's normal variation, nothing to do with human activity.
3. It's happening, and human activity is partly to blame, but there's nothing we can do now about the worst effects.


You forgot:

4. So, it's ok to do as little as possible and enjoy rampant consumerism, etc.
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

Berlynn

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« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2007, 01:06:18 PM »
Quote from: Boom Boom
Yes, and if you go back and read my post, at the end, her comments on the Gore film are my main quibble with her column.


I apologize if I jumped on you a little quickly there, Boom Boom, but she got me sooooo riled up this morning!  Wente is really *not* a good way to begin a Sunday morning!

And yes, there is much that must be done because the sea levels will rise.  That said, if we act quickly to reduce harmful emissions (and not just carbons), we can prevent a lot of damage, too.
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

'lance

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« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2007, 01:07:49 PM »
Quote from: Berlynn
You forgot:

4. So, it's ok to do as little as possible and enjoy rampant consumerism, etc.


Well, yes.

It comes down to this: there's no reason to trust or believe someone who absolutely refuses, under any circumstances (no way/no day, etc.) to say, unequivocally: I. Was. Wrong.

On the day Margaret Wente publishes a column to that effect, she'll take a step towards that blessed state -- rare for a columnist -- of being worth taking seriously. (Same goes for Marcus Gee, and any number of other writers I can think of, even if I can't bring their names to mind just now).

Boom Boom

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« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2007, 01:09:53 PM »
This is only the first column of Wente's that I've ever read, and it wasn't particularly loathsome. I assume if I read more of her stuff, I may develop the same visceral contempt (hate?) that some here have expressed for her.  :)

'lance

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« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2007, 01:12:27 PM »
Hat(r)e(d)*? Not on my part. Not even contempt -- not for her personally, that is. I find it impossible to imagine ever becoming friends with her, but that's different.

Contempt for what she has to say: without question.

(* ObPendantry: So far as I'm concerned, "hate" is the verb, "hatred" the noun. Garrumph).

Holly Stick

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« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2007, 01:17:13 PM »
Quote from: Boom Boom
This is only the first column of Wente's that I've ever read, and it wasn't particularly loathsome. I assume if I read more of her stuff, I may develop the same visceral contempt (hate?) that some here have expressed for her.  :)
Yes, Boom Boom, this article is loathsome.  Wente is carrying the can for the climate change sceptics and denialists.  She is deliberately discounting Al Gore's movie as alarmist; this is highly dishonest and dishonourable on her part.  It is part of the sceptics' actual strategy; "alarmist" is their new and spreading buzzword.  Either they are feeding Wente this bullshit and she is mindlessly repeating it; or she is an active developer of this strategy.  After all the Bush government pays some journalists to spout its line; do you think someone like Wente could not be for sale?
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

 

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