Author Topic: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran  (Read 13453 times)

Toedancer

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2009, 06:31:10 PM »
Wow, so methodical. The political elites in Canada are still in cocoon stage and do not represent us.  Thanks A!
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Toedancer

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 02:20:19 AM »
This is just sickitating.
Many voices calling for war with Iran Giraldi

Quote
She seems ignorant of the fact that an Israeli bombing attack on Iran would have to cross Iraq, where the airspace is controlled by the United States.  The Pentagon can tell Israel flatly that it will use whatever force is necessary to stop an Israeli overflight knowing that if the US were to permit the attack it would be an accomplice to it, virtually requiring the Iranians to retaliate and drawing Washington into the war whether it wanted to be there or not.

That's why I think it is sick, mentally sick. I didn't know about the overflights. So many layers to the Onion.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Croghan27

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2010, 07:38:44 PM »
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if the US were to permit the attack it would be an accomplice to it, virtually requiring the Iranians to retaliate and drawing Washington into the war whether it wanted to be there or not.

Could it be that this is the very thing that Israel (government) wants? Hummmmm??  :whis: and possibly the USA (government) but this is the war that dare not speak its' objective?
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Toedancer

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2010, 08:01:52 PM »
Crogh, check out WhoProfits to see an entire Industry is built on the occupation. Nobody wants peace while so much money is at stake.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Croghan27

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2010, 08:09:56 PM »
Quote from: Toedancer
Crogh, check out WhoProfits to see an entire Industry is built on the occupation. Nobody wants peace while so much money is at stake.

I had consider using the phrase "corporate hard on for General Dynamics and Boeing etc" over another war in the mid-east.    :popcorn
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Toedancer

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"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Toedancer

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2010, 10:21:14 AM »
That Bill Juan Cole told us about:  House Resolution 1553,  which blatantly supports a military strike against Iran proposed by 47 US   Representatives - led by Rep. Louis Buller Gohmert,Republican   Representative from Texas's 1st congressional district. Okay, there is that, but what I didn't know was about another Bill brought forward by Democrat congressman Rengal 7 Days BEFORE 1553!
‘Universal National Service Act', Bill 5471 which states:

To require all persons in the United States   between the ages of 18 and 42 to perform national service, either as a   member of the uniformed services or in civilian service in furtherance   of the national defense and homeland security, to authorize the   induction of persons in the uniformed services during wartime to meet   end-strength requirements of the uniformed services, and for other   purposes!



 




 
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Toedancer

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2010, 11:06:37 AM »
Rangel's 13 ethics violations, he can refute one or two, but not 13, so either way he's out. Thank goodness, the Bill can die. Man am I slow today, I had forgotten he was digging his heels in even after Obama said he should go with dignity, which of course means resign.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/30/charles-rangel-trial-gop-_n_664744.html
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

skdadl

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2010, 12:02:10 PM »
I'm not sure what Rangel's situation has to do with Iran, Toe.  I don't see a source for your second-last comment above so I don't know what Rangel's theory is, but I'm in favour of conscription, certainly in the U.S., possibly here. There is no faster way to stop war than to tell privileged North Americans that their kids are going to be shipped off to fight it. Conscription was definitely a factor in ending the Viet Nam war.

The same logic doesn't apply everywhere -- in places that have always been drenched in military culture or where most people are very poor, "national service" contributes to warlike character. Among Americans, though, who haven't had conscription all these years since Viet Nam and are very privileged, it would be a serious wake-up call. Conscript 'em all, including the president's daughters, no deferrals. 

Toedancer

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2010, 01:54:51 PM »
I'm not sure what Rangel's situation has to do with Iran, Toe.  I don't see a source for your second-last comment above so I don't know what Rangel's theory is, but I'm in favour of conscription, certainly in the U.S., possibly here.

Sorry about not providing link. Those two Bills together have ev. to do with Iran, because it makes it possible for the U.S. to  have an army, because it legislates war with Iran to protect Israel.

First: Bill 1553

Mr. GOHMERT  submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs Gohmert a deacon of his church in Texas.  ::)

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Expressing support for the State of Israel’s right to defend Israeli   sovereignty, to protect the lives and safety of the Israeli people, and   to use all means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats   posed by the Islamic Republic of Iran, including the use of military   force if no other peaceful solution can be found within reasonable time   to protect against such an immediate and existential threat to the State   of Israel.

Second: Bill 5741

Rangels Bill 5741 That is not Conscription, but mandatory volunteerism, which is an oxymoron.
Obama discussed in his early speeches, and it is just a way to get around conscription to provide fodder, free fodder, either in a uniform @ war, or @ home building dams etc.

Together they are dark and dangerous. Hopefully 5741 dies for the 3rd time.


"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

skdadl

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2010, 02:15:53 PM »
Toe, all I can do is repeat: Rangel's bill has nothing to do with Gohmert's or with Iran. It is about national service, a traditional term in, eg, the UK for conscription or a reasonable domestic facsimile of military service. Rangel is a liberal Democrat -- I remember him especially from the House JC that voted to impeach Nixon -- and he has argued for national service for a long time. He represents Harlem -- I presume that the purpose of his bill is partly to demand that middle-class white Americans make the same sacrifices for the nation that the children of his constituents do. And I think he is right to do that.

As soon as the middle and upper middle classes grasp that their kids are going to have to do what poor kids do, for at least two years, political attitudes change. I'm sure that is Rangel's point, and I believe that that logic applies in North America, although not in some other places.

Rik did national service in the RAF in the 1950s. The queen wisely never let him near a plane, but I think that experience has a good effect on young people, a democratizing effect. They stop thinking of war as something that only other people go off to die in.

A volunteer army is a working-class / working-poor army, and that is wrong.

Croghan27

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2010, 02:43:09 PM »
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A volunteer army is a working-class / working-poor army, and that is wrong.

May be wrong, but does it make a difference?

Bit of a wander OT here ... but I did not notice any evidence that the conscripted army of Viet Nam made a great difference in their governing. It is now that the generation that was supposed to fight in the paddies are in the positions of power and like Henry the VIIIth .... second verse, same as the first. (I am including the chickenhawks like Bush here too.)

Certainly McCain fought, managing to be shot down, and Kerry did his riverboat medal winning thing, JFK is an example from an earlier war - but I would hold up none of the above as a fine examples of liberal or working class values. (Not necessarily the same.)

What did not operate in the US did work in Canada ... we were an increasingly more liberal country after WWII - the (now) adults coming back from Europe would not let the 30s happen again. The post war politics created medicare, wheat boards and various 'crown corporations', UIC became a true safety net.  Hell, even the Conservatives were liberal then by normal standards.

Naturally this was truncated when true class values overtook experiential ones ... the ruling class exerted its' power and is doing so even yet, in the person of Harper.

 
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

skdadl

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2010, 03:08:18 PM »
Certainly McCain fought, managing to be shot down, and Kerry did his riverboat medal winning thing, JFK is an example from an earlier war - but I would hold up none of the above as a fine examples of liberal or working class values. (Not necessarily the same.)



Of course not, and that is the point. The U.S. army during the Viet Nam war was a conscript army: in theory, everyone (well, males, anyway) was supposed to serve, and that is one of the main reasons the war ended.

Those who ducked conscription -- George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, eg -- have remained suspect for that very reason, at least among reasonable people.

If the children of rich people have to go to fight, then everyone will think more seriously about going to war in the first place. That is my only point.

Volunteer armies are classist and, in the U.S., racist. That's just the way it is, and that's what Rangel is trying to make people see.

Toedancer

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2010, 05:36:40 PM »
Those who ducked conscription -- George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, eg -- have remained suspect for that very reason, at least among reasonable people.

If the children of rich people have to go to fight, then everyone will think more seriously about going to war in the first place. That is my only point.

Volunteer armies are classist and, in the U.S., racist. That's just the way it is, and that's what Rangel is trying to make people see.

 The whole point of a draft is so that America won’t go to WAR unless there is broad public support and Congress has declared and approved war and to  make military service more equitable and to make WAR less invisible to the American Public. I'm nervous about this tho. The gov is ultimately an instrument of force and who is to say the poli's kids don't end up in the Peace Corps to get out of service if it is military. It's happened before. I think Rangel is just performing a duty for Obama.

As for Rangel, I think he lost his Way His transgressions to the public trust go back a decade, cuz you know, it turns out he's classist too.
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arborman

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Re: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2010, 01:54:26 AM »
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I don't see a source for your second-last comment above so I don't know what Rangel's theory is, but I'm in favour of conscription, certainly in the U.S., possibly here.


It may be that you do not have young boys in your family.  No, no, and no again. 


I don't disagree with your arguments, but my boys will be forcibly conscripted and squandered over my dead body.  It's bad enough seeing the 5 year old respond to all the cultural violence (i.e. guns, swords, transformers, war) and worrying he'll make the classic 18 year old mistake. 


I do not support wars, I oppose them, and don't need my kids killed to be made aware of the futility and horror of war.
The pleasures of the table are for every man, of every land, and no matter what place in history or society; they can be a part of all his other pleasures, and they last the longest, to console him when he has outlived the rest.

 

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