Author Topic: 2008 Presidential Race  (Read 183937 times)

arborman

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2008 Presidential Race
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2007, 08:24:21 PM »
Quote from: Boom Boom
Kucinich probably doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of ever winning the nomination.

So spake every Democrat who liked him, thereby ensuring their prediction became true.

A very interesting and thoughtful article about Hillary Clinton here

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More than any other public figure, Hillary forces us to acknowledge that the path to power for American women is not all that clear, more an odyssey than a march. The national trauma began when Hillary violated perceived roles of domesticity, says Betty Winfield, a University of Missouri professor who has been monitoring Hillary's public perception since the campaign of 1992. "People had a very preconceived idea about how a first lady was supposed to act, the image of a supportive wife but not too outspoken," says Winfield. "Hillary had no noblesse oblige cause, nothing coming from the domestic sphere like highway beautification or illiteracy or anti-drug use among teens. No, no. She was going to change the entire health care system for the whole country."

This didn't sit well, says Winfield, in part because "women who attain power or public recognition as satellites of great men are subject to a lot more criticism than women who arrive to the public arena on their own accomplishment." (In her day, Dolley Madison was accused of being lascivious, Jefferson's mistress, and trading sex for votes.) Of course, long before she was first lady, Hillary was already accomplished, having clawed her way up the law firm ladder to become the first female partner in Arkansas' oldest and most prestigious firm.

and furthermore..

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Ask your friends if their fear and loathing of Hillary has anything to do with her being a woman, and you'll undoubtedly get a denial. That might be someone else's problem, but certainly not mine. But after a Lazio moment, or when John Edwards' wife told guests at a Ladies' Home Journal luncheon that her "choices" had made her "happier" and more "joyful" than Hillary, an epiphany can occur, as it did for The Nation's Katha Pollitt, who wrote, "If people keep making sexist attacks on Hillary Rodham Clinton, I may just have to vote for her. That means you, Elizabeth Edwards!"

And one more...

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How retro-1970s an answer is that? Hillary is still talking that talk and walking that walk, even though the revolution never really worked out as drafted. Those day care and health care support systems never arrived. Glass ceilings appeared, lower pay persisted. Feminism gained an angry militant opposition that now works to outlaw abortion state by state. Without widespread public support, the movement fell onto the shoulders of the individual women who could tough it out, women like Sister Frigidaire, the woman who could visit Buffalo 26 times. A lot of women just got tired. Many shrugged off the fight for full professional independence and happily went home to raise the kids. Feminists gamely tried to make the argument that their intention all along was to allow any of these fine choices to be made. But a lot of compromises were made all around. Now Gloria Steinem is like some oldest living Confederate widow occasionally showing up on TV to remind us what it was like, back in the day. Then, a certain ideal seemed inevitable -- the feminist enjoying both the pleasures of motherhood and the Eisenhower-era man's life of full professional reward. Of those idealists, Hillary is arguably the only one still in our face.


Agree or disagree.  I find the comments after the article interesting, in which one after another lights into HRC for being representative of some archetype they despise.

I've found her support of the Iraq war to be very unsettling, but I now find myself wondering how much of her statements and actions actually find their way to me without being utterly corrupted by one bias or another in the transmission.[/url]
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John_D

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2008 Presidential Race
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2007, 09:30:03 PM »
I'm not sure how I feel about the morality of it, but I do think the main reason HRC is so willing to compromise positions in pursuit of electability is that she understands through hard experience how much harder a road she faces to being elected. I think supporting the Iraq war is a big part of that, something she feels she has to do to protect a political flank none of the other candidates have. Who knows what she actually believes about the war? I know Bill used to triangulate just for the sake of triangulating even more, but in her case it seems like she's put up with a LOT of bullshit, over decades, to get into this position. I wouldn't be surprised to see her play the game long enough to get in, and then finally turn around and govern from personal principle while in office as her "reward" from having had to do so much to get to the big chair.

I still don't like her chances. I mean, forget just the "old, rich white dude" paradigm. This is a country so stuck in its ways as to what a leader is supposed to look like that it won't even elect a non-Protestant as President. Well, they did once... and then he was assassinated. If Clinton is able to win, either the nomination alone or it and the presidency, it'll be because she ran a campaign about five thousand times better than anyone else.

GDKitty

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« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2007, 09:35:43 PM »
Quote from: arborman
A very interesting and thoughtful article about Hillary Clinton  here
Yo, Arborman: great minds think alike :)
That's the same article I linked to back here:
Quote from: GDKitty
[...snip]I confess, however, that part of me feels defensive for her when she gets slurred/attacked by right-wingers (or even the MSM). Mother Jones magazine (Jack Hitt) dealt with this problem: "Harpy, Hero, Heretic: Hillary"
I have some problems with the MoJo piece but I think it's still a worthwhile read.

Boom Boom

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« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2007, 11:41:23 PM »
Quote from: arborman
Quote from: Boom Boom
Kucinich probably doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of ever winning the nomination.

So spake every Democrat who liked him, thereby ensuring their prediction became true.


I don't believe the majority of Democrats like him at all.  They want someone electable, like Bill Clinton.

faith

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« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2007, 12:33:43 AM »
I remember admiring Hillary so much when she and Bill were first in the White House and they came to Canada for a visit. She seemed like a breath of fresh air when it came to Presidential spouses and she seemed full of hope and confidence and so intelligent.
Then the right got organised around Whitewater , Bill got caught and people outside the White House stood with signs in their hands with the words BITCH and other choice phrases describing their first lady- it must have seemed like a total friggin nightmare.
The fact that she is still in there fighting seems amazing. I don't think her chances are good for election but I do think she would make a fine President, compared to the current one she's a presidential genius.
just picture it

arborman

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« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2007, 12:43:16 AM »
Quote from: Boom Boom

I don't believe the majority of Democrats like him at all.  They want someone electable, like Bill Clinton.


Never said they did.  I said that the majority of Democrats who liked Kucinich opted for someone else because they saw him as unelectable, thereby ensuring that he remains unelectable.  A catch-22 that is all too familiar for the NDP here in Canada.
The pleasures of the table are for every man, of every land, and no matter what place in history or society; they can be a part of all his other pleasures, and they last the longest, to console him when he has outlived the rest.

radiorahim

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« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2007, 01:23:33 AM »
Quote
How about Al Sharpton? Fabulous speaker.


Al Sharpton certainly made the best speech at the last Democratic Party convention.

In terms of their politics if I'd been a USian I would have supported Kucinich and/or Sharpton last time out.

It's good to see that John Kerry is not running...he was a disaster last time out.
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vmichel

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« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2007, 09:51:49 AM »
On a personal level I don't like H Clinton. I think I would probably agree with  most of what she would do in office, however. I agree with much of what she says. Therefore, I'm grudgingly forced to conclude that some of my own animosity may have sexist roots. The idea of her being president bugs me on a visceral level, even more than the idea of a right-wing nut winning does. I think I have some baggage around the idea of the first woman president being the wife of an ex-president.

So I will pay careful attention to what she says, and if I agree with it I'll vote for her. But it will be an effort to get beyond that gut feeling.

I give her tremendous credit for a)being one of the only politicians around who actually gives sensible answers full of content and information and b)having an incredibly thick skin.

Caissa

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« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2007, 10:04:45 AM »
The difficult thing watching American politics as a Canadian is that electable spectrum of opinion seems smaller and the overall msm debate seems further to the write. Also, the fact that most states distribute their Electoral College on a winner takes all basis leads to some interesting dynamics. One wonders how a Clinton/Obama ticket would play out. Would it lead to higher voter registration and participation by individuals who traditionally don't participate in the electoral political process? What effect would an endorsement by Oprah have on this ticket? Would the South vote for a ticket of a New York Senator and an Illinois Senator? Can a Senator become President for the first time since 1960?

I'm looking forward to watching the Presidential raise unfold. It's one of my favourite spectator sports.  :D

brebis noire

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« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2007, 10:51:02 AM »
I admit I always liked Hillary, from the first time I saw her with the hairband in early 1992 (I was partial to hairbands myself at the time.) I was always just kind of glad she was there. Granted, I haven't been paying that much attention to what she's been doing over the years (though I did study a speech she gave in Beijing and I was impressed with what she said) or what people in the US have been saying about her, though I was aware of the massive hate-on. Just knowing where the hate was coming from made me like her.

In my view, she is very much a product of her time. I don't think it's particularly exceptional that she's there - more inevitable than exceptional. From time to time throughout history, there have been strong and very intelligent women who have pushed through to the very top when circumstances have permitted. I don't think it ends up changing the status quo all that much, however. It's the popular movements, like the one that 'produced' Hillary - that have more strength and meaning.

gunnar gunnarson

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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2007, 11:18:26 AM »
Quote from: Brebis noire
I admit I always liked Hillary, from the first time I saw her with the hairband in early 1992 (I was partial to hairbands myself at the time).

brebis noire, please tell me you mean hairband and that it stops there, rather than proceeding to headband.  Because from there, it's only a few small steps to Lillian Vander Zalm.   :singlemalt:

brebis noire

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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2007, 11:23:17 AM »
I'm afraid to even respond to that.  :hides:

faith

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« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2007, 11:41:27 AM »
Quote
I don't think it ends up changing the status quo all that much, however. It's the popular movements, like the one that 'produced' Hillary - that have more strength and meaning.


Well said.

I remember saying to someone who  was another one of those "I hate Hillary" people that she was an example of the best the US produced. She represented a new involvement for women in government, a real change in the way policy was considered- then the backlash got rolling.

I think Hillary represents for the right, all of their fears coming true. Strong intelligent women taking the power of decision making into their own hands.
just picture it

sparqui

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« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2007, 02:52:06 PM »
I like Maxine Waters and Barbara Lee. Those are the only two women in the Democratic Party that I can think of off the top of my head that I trust and respect.
If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor. -- Gilles Duceppe

fern hill

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« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2007, 12:53:07 PM »
Joe biden stuffs his foot in his mouth. And, at the end of this piece, there is a report that Al Franken is going to run for the Senate. Woohoo!


http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/01/news/biden.php

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Biden remark overshadows his campaign kickoff

WASHINGTON: Could this be remembered as the first presidential campaign to start and all but end in a single day?

Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware, who announced his candidacy on Wednesday with the hope that he could ride his foreign policy expertise into contention for the Democratic nomination, instead spent the day struggling to explain his description of Senator Barack Obama, Democrat of Illinois, who is running for president, as "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

The remark, published Wednesday in The New York Observer, left Biden's campaign struggling to survive its first hours and injected race more directly into the presidential contest. The day ended, appropriately enough for the way politics is practiced now, with Biden explaining himself to Jon Stewart on the television network Comedy Central.

In a decidedly nonpresidential afternoon conference call with reporters that had been intended to announce his candidacy, Biden, speaking over loud echoes and a blaring television set, said that he had been "quoted accurately." He volunteered that he had called Obama to express regret that his remarks had been taken "out of context," and that Obama had assured him he had nothing to explain.

"Barack Obama is probably the most exciting candidate that the Democratic or Republican party has produced at least since I've been around," he said, adding: "Call Senator Obama. He knew what I meant by it. The idea was very straightforward and simple. This guy is something brand new that nobody has seen before."

 

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