Author Topic: Critical perspectives on the Pickton trial  (Read 26202 times)

lagatta

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Critical perspectives on the Pickton trial
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2007, 07:42:49 PM »
There are many tools for verb conjugation (don't feel silly, when we stare at the computer for too long, everything looks wrong). Here is one: http://www.verbix.com/
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
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deBeauxOs

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Critical perspectives on the Pickton trial
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2007, 09:15:12 PM »
Quote from: arborman
... And, in the interest of a just society, it would probably be worthwhile to at least consider the unlikely possibility that the cops were so desperate to arrest someone they falsified the evidence. ...

Or more likely than falsify, the cops might have removed whatever could incriminate some of their own.  

According to some media reports, it was either dumb luck that brought them to the pig farm, or the pretext of a search warrant for illegal weapons.  Once there, evidence in plain view (a blood-spattered woman's handbag) made them look closer at other suspicious items on Pickton's property.

Other news items say there had been reports to authorities of 'disturbances' at the farm, but it seems no-one investigating the disappearances of the missing women made the connection, until bloody items and body parts were discovered.

Holly Stick

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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2007, 10:58:30 PM »
There is a CBC article about backlash to the publicity:
Quote
The early lesson of the gruesome trial in Courtroom 102 in New Westminster, B.C., involving Robert William Pickton is that it won’t sustain the media circus — and public interest — that many observers predicted.

This long-awaited trial has attracted journalists from all across Canada and several countries. So far, the court has accredited more than 350 of them — including bloggers, sex-trade workers filing stories for a news website, and reporters for The Economist, Court TV, Time, Germany’s ARD Television, The Washington Post, The New York Times and BBC News.

But in Canada at least, there seem to be the beginnings of a backlash to too much coverage of the awful details...
There are a number of comments with different points of view; one person pointed out that the women were ignored from 1995-2002.

As for other people involved in the case; there was a report in 2002 of a woman who expected to be arrested anytime; she doesn't appear to have been.  Maybe she'll be a witness?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2002/03/20/bc_houston020318.html
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

anne cameron

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Critical perspectives on the Pickton trial
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2007, 11:00:21 AM »
A Vancouver TV station "interviewed" the fourteen year old daughter of Marnie Frey.  I was so angry I think I came to a dead halt!  The kid attended the first day, obviously she wanted to know what had happened to her mom, and instead of being protected, as kids should be, or respected, as we all should be, she had a mike shoved in front of her and a camera focussed on her, and was asked dipshit questions.

Some of the wording used in some of the reports almost seem to suggest that the women "asked for it".  As if being an addict deserved such a fate , as if being a sex worker meant you were no longer human.

And the jury gets advised to carefully listen to hour after hour of tapes and to pay particular attention to how he speaks and what that might mean about his mental capacity.  Surely to heaven we aren't going to hear "diminished capacity"... he managed to outsmart the cops for years!

I have never felt he was alone in this.  A woman fled that farm with a serious knife wound in her gut, managed to get to a neighbour, call the cops, get treatment at a hospital.  Charges were laid.  And then dropped. With no explanation as to why they were dropped.

Many reports of cops partying with bikers at "piggys palace" and, who knows, they might just have been trying to keep their 'fingers on the pulse' of the place, and to know who was there and what was going on but I really wonder about the year after year of seeming tolerance.

I don't think we're going to learn a fraction of the story of why it took so long for the police to get their heads out of whichever orifice they chose to shove them.  For me it's pretty obvious, they were women, they were expendable.

Toedancer

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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2007, 11:32:52 AM »
Thanks for all the background everyone. And yes DB that woman who was stabbed, the charges stayed in 1997. Piggy's Palace had a reputation even before Robert P began his homicidal rage against women that I didn't know about. Well attended it seems by the local 'stars'.

Quote
Dave Pickton bought the Piggy's Palace property after selling off chunks of the second family homestead to developers eager to build homes, parks and schools.

Flush with cash, the brothers set up The Good Times society, an organization run in part to raise funds for local charities.

The parties were a who's who of local celebrity, attended by politicians, musicians, reporters and locals. my emphasis

The guests were a far cry from the 26 women, many of whom were drug addicts and prostitutes, that Robert Pickton, 57, is alleged to have killed.

He was arrested in February of 2002 and his trial on six of those charges is set to begin on Monday.

Rumour and speculation course through Port Coquitlam as to what fate might befall Pickton during the trial. Some say they've heard he is gravely ill with liver and kidney problems and might not live through the proceedings.


http://66.244.236.254/medhat/article_st ... pid=644763

ETA - 'many of whom were drug addicts and prostitues', good lord, well it is Medicine Hat afterall. And WTF does 'many of whom' mean?
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

deBeauxOs

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Critical perspectives on the Pickton trial
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2007, 01:56:34 PM »
Quote from: Toedancer
...'many of whom were drug addicts and prostitues', good lord, well it is Medicine Hat afterall. And WTF does 'many of whom' mean?
There would be relevant and fascinating research to be done, and likely an original dissertation to write, for anyone interested in dissecting the language and tone used in MSM to describe the victims of violent killings, to reveal the sexist and classist and racist underpinnings.  As I mentioned above, most, if not all, reports of Aileen Wuornos killings describe the victims favourably and not, as she alleged, as prospective johns or potential rapists.

You don't see much use of the term 'innocent victims' for the women killed, in reports of the murders at the Pickton pig farm.

 :banghead

skdadl

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Critical perspectives on the Pickton trial
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2007, 02:00:26 PM »
*cough* That was a CP report, even if it ran in the Medicine Hat News. *cough*

My dad was a reporter for the Medicine Hat News. I love Medicine Hat. Over and out.

lagatta

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« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2007, 02:08:45 PM »
I remember Le Journal de Montréal (our Sexe, Sang, Sport et Scandale sheet) covering the murder of an "ordinary" young woman (worked in an office or something) saying "c'était une jeune fille innocente et elle ne méritait pas de mourir".

A couple of years ago, a "prostitute" was murdered in her flat very close to where I live. Coverage, especially in the tabloid press, centred on her risky lifestyle.

True, it was a risky lifestyle, but not all risk-taking is described in the same way.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

anne cameron

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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2007, 04:11:31 PM »
Now, now , grils..this is your teacher, Mz Gooch, bringing the class to order, please.  Appropriate positions of attention, appropriate decorum at all times.

With regard to the language used by MSM.  There are only two kinds of women.  Good women and bad women.  Good women are nuns, respectable wives and mothers, or, like myself, middleclass or higher women of either independent means or socially respectable jobs.  And bad women aren't.

Good women are described in only the most glowing of terms.

And bad women aren't.

Good women reap their just reward.

Bad women get what's coming to them

Good women are described as innocent victims, a loss to family and community, and we'll never forget them.

Bad women just disappear.  If they are discovered dead it's no skin off anyone's ass, we'll drag our feet for nine years, then make sure we pay a lot of attention to words like prostitute, sex trade worker, mean streets, drug addict and , if we can get away with it scum

For your homework you will please read all newspaper accounts for the past week and make a list of words  used to describe good women and the ones used to describe bad women.

Then wash your minds and don't worry your pretty little heads about it.

lagatta

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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2007, 04:54:45 PM »
One Brit tabloid, describing the case, keeps hammering the term "vice girls" - no surprise as they did the same with the recent spate of serial killings of sex workers there.

Obviously grinding them up into mince and feeding them to pigs got a lot of space in the story.

I know people like those women here, as I've given classes at the Native Friendship Centre, and some of the people are homeless and marginal (not all, obviously). But all have arrived here in a huge city from faraway Cree, Inuit or Innu country,   like arriving on the moon.

I'm not among those who would extol street prostitution as a career choice like any other - in the cases I've encountered, it has been brutal and cruel (I do know a middle-class gay male callboy whose experience is far less harsh, though there are "issues" in his life too). But it is of the utmost hypocrisy to drag women who have been subjected to racism and  the attendant family breakdown and sexual, physical, psychological and substance abuse through the mud once again.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

anne cameron

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« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2007, 05:21:08 PM »
Each and every one of those women was someone's daughter.  Each and every one of them had grandmothers.

I try to tell myself terms like "vice girls", "party girls", "sex trade workers" and other such terms are how some journalists protect themselves from the accumulation of horror they must carry around with them after only a couple of cases such as these, and the ones in the UK.  I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I ask myself how would I, as a writer, get my article past the editors?  

And I just come up with the same unsatisfactory thing: that's why I never wanted to be a journalist.

We have an opportunity to really LOOK at some long standing deeply rooted issues as the Willie Picton pavanne is performed.  We can look at society's neglect of those with deep substance problems, we can look at what the current type of welfare and foster care does to kids, we can look at the historic genocide wreaked on native peoples in North America, and we can look into our own hearts and souls and ask if we're complicit in any way and what we intend to do about it in future.

Or we can just become part of the problem and make no effort to find solutions of any kind.

One of our adopted extended family members married a young woman whose mother was one of the native women killed by alcohol poisoning in a Vancouver hotel room by a notorious bastard who is responsible for at least half a dozen such deaths, if not many more.  What that did to the young woman was indescribably horrible.

The pain and the damage doesn't stop when someone's daughter is slaughtered.  The language being used to describe and depict these victims has got to be like hot wires across the hearts of the families.

Nobody deserves what happened to those women.  And writing them off as if they were just some windblown trash, not real citizens, subhuman because of lifestyle and addictions, isn't really all that far from what Willie is accused of doing.  And it happens every day across this nation, people as worthy of life and security as any of us wind up discounted.

And if there is a God , She isn't going to forgive us quickly for what we do to each other and the children of each other.

lagatta

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« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2007, 06:32:10 PM »
Well, I've done journalistic writing, but it was for a trade union confederation, for community associations and a left NGO. Obviously much less compromising, though there are stupid organisational loyalties - unions raiding each other instead of organising the unorganised, trying to find diplomatic solutions for issues such as workplace injuries and occupational illnesses, etc.

Even doing conference interpreting, one must sometimes steel self against some of the utter cretins, crooks and butchers one must translate. I have a friend who works at the European Parliament, where he had clows such as Putin (talk about yer substance abuse!), Berlusconi and the fascist brute Jean-Marie Le Pen.

I think you are too kind, anne, but I do think there is a guilt on some level about the horrific spoliation and continuing mistreatment of Aboriginal peoples throughout the Americas. The maquilladora murders have a bit of a racial subtext too: the killer always targeted attractive young women with "dark skin", which means Indio/India in Mexico.

A group of Micmac women cycled across Canada to raise awareness about violence against Aboriginal Women, both in their own damaged communities and in society as a whole:

http://www.aboriginalwomenonthemove.org/
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

deBeauxOs

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Critical perspectives on the Pickton trial
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2007, 06:36:12 PM »
A CBC news item said recently that family members of the 6 women that Pickton is specifically accused of killing, in this first trial, have received subpoenas to testify for the prosecution.  

The good news is that this may mean that their testimony will serve to remind the jurors that the women murdered were loved and valued by their families.  

The bad news is that financial support that had been extended to them for travel and accomodation, as family members attending the trial,  is no longer available to them because they're now potential witnesses.

Makwa

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Critical perspectives on the Pickton trial
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2007, 06:44:33 PM »
Quote from: lagatta
But all have arrived here in a huge city from faraway Cree, Inuit or Innu country,   like arriving on the moon.
Gee, lagatta, don't mean to get to pissy, but Cree (Innu country is less familiar to me, but I suspect it is similar), at least where many of my relatives come from in Northern Saskatchewan, is not really all that far removed from urban life.  Lots of kids wear whatever kids wear - falling off big pants, hoodies, do their skateboard thing over and over on the limited ashphalt available in the community, listen to hip hop etc.  In fact, a few years ago the reserve held a hip-hop jam on their community field for the 'local' kids, most of whom came from towns and cities within a hundred klicks or so.  With internet access, cable and cars, First Nations folk are not the wide eyed naifs that they used to be portrayed as on CBC's Wojeck. This is not to minimize the profound culture shock that comes with leaving a small extended family oriented community to the major urban street oriented lifestyle - however, I think that it would be more helpful to not envision First Nations people in such conventional terms.
we are the stars that sing / we make a bridge for the spirits to walk over

lagatta

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« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2007, 07:11:20 PM »
Makwa, Inuit and Innu aren't wild-eyed naifs either, and they have the modern cultural features you mention. I'm sorry if I made it sound as if Aboriginal people from far from the city were naive - they are anything but - and Aboriginal cultures, with their oral traditions, have been swift to seize upon the Net and video etc to tell their stories and dreams.

I was just trying to express severe culture shock - people from Montréal would have an equal culture shock in the other direction. I have worked in Nunavik, and I freaked out.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

 

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