Author Topic: History as art become art as history  (Read 4314 times)

Croghan27

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History as art become art as history
« on: March 10, 2007, 07:42:45 PM »
Yo skdadl:

Remember we were speaking once of how sometimes an actor can so command a part that they become as real as the origional character - Laurence Olivier does it with George Smiley and James Mason does it with Irwin Rommel.

The Desert Fox is was just on.

The film was made in the early 50s when the west was trying to come to terms with the War and yet have faith that Germany would be a 'bulwark against communism'. So many things are happening in this screen play.

Rommel is a loyal Hiterite, even if it suggested it is for anti-communist reasons, and the Nazis are sort of bumbling fools. Cedric Harwicke dismisses a 'tail' by a (very obvious) Nazi agent as easily as Sam Spade spots Wilmer in The Maltese Falcon. (Wear a floppy fedora and a long leather coat and it is a dead give away.)

The film begins with one of my favourite lines, spoken by Michael (just call me Kaaltu)  Renee, "
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At 9:30 on the evening of October 22nd, 1942 six miles of British artillery began firing."
Six miles! Six fucking miles... I cannot walk six miles in an hour.

All this and Mason IS Rommel - overacting enough to communicate that we are dealing with mighty matters here, subtle enough to let us know this is a person we are dealing with. Wikipedia says:
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Mason's performance as Rommel (in this film, not its prequel The Desert Rats (film)), is generally regarded as one of his best,..."


The film tries to suggest that Rommel participated in the plot to depose Hitler, without any positive proof, but has Leo J. Carol plays a sympathetic and tragic von Rundstedt. When invited to join the plot he says; "Oh no, I am 70 now - too old, too old to revolt against anything, no matter how evil."

Forget Humbert Humbert, ignore the Georgy Girl, dismiss Julius Caesar (maybe remember Captain Nemo - sort of dear to my heart) but he is Field Marshal James Mason, Teutonic Knight, honourable opponent and brave General.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

skdadl

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History as art become art as history
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 07:43:36 AM »
Psst, Croghan -- it was Sir Alec Guinness who did George Smiley.  :)

I think I've seen Rommel, although maybe I'm mixing it up with Desert Rats -- but I think I've seen both, just too long ago to remember well.

I do love Mason. My all-time favourite of his is Odd Man Out, wherein he plays a wounded IRA man on the run. I could watch that movie over and over forever. Beautiful voice, and usually better at understatement, giving a sense of power under strict control.

I don't think there's ever been any doubt that Rommel was at least peripherally involved in the plot against Hitler. My old copy of Shirer (now falling apart) tells the story pretty fully. Rommel was forced to commit suicide quietly (the public story the Nazis gave out was that he'd died of his wounds)  so that his family could avoid being punished further.

Croghan27

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History as art become art as history
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 08:13:12 AM »
:oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  Guinness, of course ....

Mason actually did The Desert Rats - but it was a cheapo and usually mentioned as as - "oh he did this too."

This from a website that B. H. Liddell Hart contributed to about why Rommel was suspected after the bomb atempt on Hitler's life:  
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In the gory reprisals that followed, some suspects implicated Rommel in the plot. Although he may not been aware of the attempt on Hitler's life, his "defeatist" attitude was enough to warrant Hitler's wrath.
No  direct evidence that he was part of the plot. He is like Mayer Arar, it is known that he knows some bad people, so he must be a bad person himself.

Manfred Rommel, his son, that apparently was nearby manning an anti-aircraft battery, confirms the narrative of the film. His father said to him:
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'To die by the hand of one's own people is hard. But the house is surrounded and Hitler is charging me with high treason. ' "In view of my services in Africa," ' he quoted sarcastically, 'I am to have the chance of dying by poison. The two generals have brought it with them. It's fatal in three seconds. If I accept, none of the usual steps will be taken against my family, that is against you. They will also leave my staff alone.'


The film ends with a (poor imitation) of Churchill in Parliament, praising the man.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Croghan27

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History as art become art as history
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2007, 11:02:24 AM »
Richard Toddgives a review in the Citizen, of Handel's Messiah that I attended Tuesday night.

Hummmm .... the phrase damned with faint praise jumps to my mind when reading it .....

But then the idea of Music Appreciation 101 and access to google does too.  :annoyed:
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Croghan27

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 08:05:37 AM »
I guess this is an appropriate place to speak of Museums.

Sparqui, jj has a good post and some interesting responses about the proposed Canadian Museum Of Human Rights in your backyard.

It seems the humanity of such people as R.E.A.L. Women is just oozing out. They have a 'real' (no pun intended) problems with the advisory board:
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...... with its left-wing Advisory Board, would be used as a powerful tool to champion the Liberal government’s interpretation of human rights, such as abortion rights, feminism, homosexuality, etc. with only some legitimate exhibits sprinkled here and there to give the museum the appearance of legitimacy.

Apparently the only people with legitimate human rights concerns are now on the board,
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Fortunately the Conservative government changed the Advisory Committee in October to include individuals, mostly business men and women, with no known bias on human rights issues.
for, Lord knows, "business men and women" were horribly, horrible treated under "former Liberal Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and his Charter of Rights."

pretty shave ape, in the barks, has one of his regularly very sensible responses:
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Among the most important lessons of the holocaust is that we must never forget. Human rights are not a given, they are not permanent and they are always at risk
He points out that: One of the anomalies of human rights is that they protect the rights of those that disagree with human rights and follows that with:
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Many will be bombarding this site demanding that homosexuality be denied as a human right or lifestyle that warrants consideration and protection. Many will be fuming against the right of women to bodily self determination on the matter of pregnancy and abortion rights. These people are perfectly entitled to speak their minds and to hold the views that they do. And they are also free to not engage in homosexual lifestyles. They have every right to not have abortions. Their right to marry whomever they chose of the opposite sex is safe and protected. Human rights should come as a shield to prevent such persons from inflicting their own lifestyle choices on others. "

Life without jj would be a lot more boring.   :D
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Toedancer

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2008, 10:10:23 PM »
This is simply amazing.

Running the Numbers looks at contemporary American culture through the austere lens of statistics. Each image portrays a specific quantity of something:

The first image depicts 83,000 Abu Ghraib prisoner photographs, equal to the number of people who have been arrested and held at US-run detention facilities with no trial or other due process of law, during the Bush Administration's war on terror. The Constitution  We The People, go see it.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

skdadl

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 06:37:19 AM »
That is a talented man -- also a very patient one.  

I've seen a few other works done by similar methods -- the portrait of Moors Murderer Myra Hindley made of thousands and thousands of children's fingerprints, eg. (When you stand back from that piece, it looks like a photo, not an assemblage.) Chris Jordan's work seems even more ambitious than that.

Toedancer

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2010, 03:12:05 PM »
I'm dreaming of going to Utah to hike up slick crevices before I'm too decrepid to manage.

An amazing Photo to reminds us how insignificant we are

In that same area I've always been mystified by the fact these Two Figures Have Blue Eyes

"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Antonia

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 09:53:26 PM »
I did that in Jan 2005. 10 days of hiking in Utah. I was fascinated by the remnants of an ancient Aboriginal population. You'd go into a crevice and find all kinds of neat stuff, like maps depicting where water, certain animals and hunting grounds were.

Hence this photo which I called EstroGlyphs.
http://twitpic.com/3ess5z


Visited a former NASA guy who has a mini-observatory up in the hills and was blown away.

For you Toe, I wish you the trip.
It is when we all play safe that we create a world of utmost insecurity. It is when we all play safe that fatality will lead us to our doom. It is in the "dark shade of courage" alone that the spell can be broken.
-- Dag Hammarskjöld

Toedancer

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 10:24:14 PM »
That  photo is shit, if you dont mind me saying so.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Croghan27

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 10:24:35 PM »
That  photo is shit, if you dont mind me saying so.

Tell us how you rully, rully feel, toe.  :confused
 
I keep getting connections with some allegory of some cave from looking at it. ( I am sure that a few who do not appreciate Antonia such as we do,  :hug  would make a connection between the shadows on the wall and her reporting. - Plato is the patron philosopher/saint of the right wing.)
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Toedancer

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 12:29:03 PM »

Tell us how you rully, rully feel, toe.  :confused

It came from a very negative, dispirited, mean place and I apologize. I have had to counter it with lots of meditation and cleansing spirit stuff.  :crying
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 12:29:30 PM by Toedancer »
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

lagatta

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2010, 12:37:18 PM »
I so wish we or someone had the means of sending you off on a little holiday, somewhere warm and pleasant where there is a lot of greenery, and beautiful wild creatures to observe.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

brebis noire

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Re: History as art become art as history
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 12:52:16 PM »

 

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