Author Topic: Class  (Read 16983 times)

fern hill

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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2007, 09:39:01 AM »
Oy, BB, you're such a sensitive gyu. If you are ever in a neighbourhood with a strong Italian or Portuguese presence, do not look at the clotheslines!!! There are amazing feats of engineering and material science masquerading as brassieres hanging on their lines.

Boom Boom

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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2007, 09:51:55 AM »
When I moved into this house last year, I was between two single women who each hung their laundry on the lines in the backyard. Try as I might to avert my eyes, I occasionally was confronted with this awful stuff, and, one time, in a mad dash to avert my eyes from this terrifying sight lest I go blind, I tripped over my garden tools and come close to seriously injuring myself. As it was, it turned out only my pride was injured. Pride goeth before the fall, and all that. :oops:

deBeauxOs

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« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2007, 09:56:13 AM »
Ahem. Howard Hughes designed a special "over the shoulder boulder holder" for Jane Russell, which she refused to wear.

Caissa

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« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2007, 09:57:14 AM »
Ah, Boom Boom. It's okay. Everyone needs a fetish. :P

Boom Boom

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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2007, 09:58:14 AM »
:rotfl:

skdadl

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« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2007, 10:00:18 AM »
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In her 1985 autobiography Russell revealed that she had in fact got pregnant at age 19, and had had a back alley abortion that was so badly botched she almost died. Upon inspecting her in the emergency room her doctor exclaimed "What butcher did this to you!" After that Russell was unable to conceive. Since then Jane has taken a staunch pro-life stance against abortion.


:(

Well, she was born in 1921. Cut her some slack.  :(

deBeauxOs

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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2007, 10:04:27 AM »
Well, other women who had that experience are pro-choice, so that women are never again subjected to back-alley abortions.  Not a generation thing nor a class thing, more likely a religious one.

anne cameron

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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2007, 11:07:33 AM »
Maybe we need a term other than "middle class".  It sort of suggests there are working class, middle class, and upper class and the transition from one to another is merely dependent on income.  There are several more classes, including the "underclass" and we don't talk about it because the ones most severely affected don't have any access to the areas the discussion could and should take place.  Very few of us are able to find publication, even letters to the editor reserve the right to edit for brevity, clarity and "taste"...

Every year the right wing think tank Fraser Institute puts out a "report card" on how the schools in the province are doing.  And every year the top places go to private schools.   This is interpreted as meaning the private schools do a better job teaching and public schools are full of failures.

Private schools get to pick and choose which student attends.  They don't have to deal with the behaviour problems , the dyslexics, the handicapped, challenged, or already defeated.  The parents at the private schools have the time and energy and resources to hold fundraisers to increase the $$ available for teaching aids.  Public schools are under funded and the fund raisers don't happen often or bring in much money because the parents are working too many jobs just to make ends meet or at least aspire to meet.  And that means the public schools have less help, less space, less technology, less of everything except little bodies in sometimes substandard facilities.  

And a kid whose folks are over worked over stressed and maybe on shift work isn't going to get the same marks as the kid whose folks can easily hire a tutor or sign the kid up for Sylvan or..

so guess who is going to wind up in the "working" or "lower" class and who is going to become a PhD with a good income.

It's a lot like predetermination.  God's punishment for not having been on the ball enough to have chosen wealthy parents.

And , somehow, we seem to have been conditioned and brainwashed to accept that as part of the natural order of selection of the fittest.

My grandson Charlie is 15, tall, very broad shouldered, orange mohawk, shy smile, and is on the honour roll.  He's also FN.  He babysits, he has a part time job at the hardware store, and he has taken his training to be a lifeguard at the municipal pool.  Of course, first he has to turn 16 to be eligible for the job.  If Charlie chooses he can go on to college and the Ehatisaht band will pay for it.

And ask yourself where in the "class" divisions this sweetheart will spend his life.

We used to think of it as the "social ladder" and all you had to do was climb but it's really more like self-contained bubbles, seperate worlds, orbitting at different levels, and very few lines of communication between them.  Lots of dictum coming down, virtually nothing going up.  And not much chance of jumping the gap from one world to a more comfortable one but every chance of being booted down to a harder or nastier one.

brebis noire

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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2007, 11:20:31 AM »
Everything you said is true, anne, and I don't think middle class means much anymore either.

Something a lot of people *know* but don't really talk about is that  so-called mobility among social classes is less than it once was, at least for certain people. There was a period, I guess post-war (grosso modo) when there was a bit more mobility, maybe only for people who could get access to the right kind of education, but I think that's pretty much stalled into a rut where you've also got "the educated class". Not so much mobility as stagnation, IMHO, and we don't quite realise our 'place' in the scheme of things until we've arrived...

There are profound differences in economic and social opportunities in my own extended family, and these can only be traced to academic ability and how it was channelled, post-high-school - other than that, we all came from basically the same place.

lagatta

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« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2007, 12:07:37 PM »
Wente and others have been writing predictable cant about the much larger gap between income levels (does she even realise there are classes?) being due to the fact that high income levels marry each other, due to the number of professional women. Funny, I know a lot of highly-educated women who are anything but high-income. Not minimum-wage, but working on contracts with no security.

And of course she is oppose such logical measures as could be enacted as public childcare (which exists in France, and is very successful) and free post-secondary education.... "Choice", after all. :roll:
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

Caissa

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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2007, 12:12:27 PM »
When we talk about social mobility are we talking about changing one's relationship to the means of production or are we talking about income?

Ms. C and I both come from working class backgrounds. Despite being around universities for over 25 years as a student and employee, there is a part of me that occasionally feels like an imposter and wonders when others will realize it.

brebis noire

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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2007, 12:17:53 PM »
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Ms. C and I both come from working class backgrounds. Despite being around universities for over 25 years as a student and employee, there is a part of me that occasionally feels like an imposter and wonders when others will realize it.


I'm an imposter in so many ways I can't keep count. Also, I wonder how many generations it takes for the feeling to wear off.

'lance

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« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2007, 12:38:07 PM »
Quote from: lagatta
I am so fucking sick of the term "middle-class"... A deliberate obfuscation, whether it is denial of the existence of the working class, or Margaret Wente and her ilk passing a couple who each make in the six figures off as such.


Well, I'm certainly not about to describe myself as "petit bourgeois" (accurate, but coming from me would sound pretentious), nor "working class" (wildly, laughably inaccurate, and would sound pretentious in another way). So, for lack of anything better, "middle class" it is.

lagatta

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« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2007, 12:48:16 PM »
Why is petit bourgeois more pretentious than middle class? The problem is more the fact that while the fundamental classes are the same, many of the intermediate classes have changed radically since Marx's day. For example, the vast numbers of people with post-secondary education but who remain salaried employees ("les salarié-e-s" in general are a far higher percentage of the population than in Marx's day, with the decline in the number of both farmers and small independent businesspersons).

And I don't know many expressions for the underclass, lower depths, lumpen or whatever that don't sound terribly accusatory, however much we are aware of the mechanisms that dump people out of the productive labour force.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

'lance

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« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2007, 12:51:32 PM »
Quote from: lagatta
Why is petit bourgeois more pretentious than middle class?


I edited that to read "would sound pretentious coming from me." Since I don't talk that way, it would sound unnatural.

Anyway, since Marxism is hardly common currency in North America, most people would have no idea what I meant. Even I wouldn't have an especially clear idea. I've forgotten most of whatever Marxist stuff I've read and have not much interest in refreshing my memory.

 

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