Author Topic: The Israel Lobby  (Read 8128 times)

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The Israel Lobby
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2007, 12:49:12 PM »
Uri Avnery on CounterPunch has praise for Walt and Mearsheimer's book:

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It is not a bellicose book. On the contrary, its style is restrained and factual. The authors take great care not to utter a single negative comment on the legitimacy of the Lobby, and indeed bend over backwards to stress their support for the existence and security of Israel. They let the facts speak for themselves. With the skill of experienced masons, they systematically lay brick upon brick, row upon row, leaving no gap in their argumentation.

This wall cannot be torn down by reasoned argument. Nobody has tried, and nobody is going to. Instead, the authors are being smeared and accused of sinister motives. If the book could be ignored altogether, this would have been done--as has happened to other books which have been buried alive.



gotta run.

GDKitty

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The Israel Lobby
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2007, 01:58:03 AM »
Tonight's Bill Moyers show was all about 'Citizens United for Israel' and John Hagee. The video should be online soon-ish.

As frightened as I was about the intro vid about CUFI and Hagee, I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion that followed, with Rabbi Michael Lerner and Dr. Timothy Weber. Lots to digest, there.

fern hill

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The Israel Lobby
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2007, 09:33:31 AM »
Ray McGovern on the attack on the USS Liberty. I have never heard of this.  :shock:


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On the evening of Sept. 26, 2006, I gave a talk on Iraq to an overflow crowd of 400 at National Avenue Church in Springfield, Missouri. A questioner asked what I thought of the study by John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen Walt of Harvard titled “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.” The study had originally been commissioned by The Atlantic Monthly. When the draft arrived, however, shouts of “Leper!” were heard at the Atlantic. The monthly wasted no time in saying thanks-but-no-thanks, and the leper-study then wandered in search of a home, finding none among American publishers. Eventually the London Review of Books published it in March 2006.

I had read that piece carefully and found it an unusual act of courage as well as scholarship. That’s what I told the questioner, adding that I did have two problems with the study:

    * First, it seemed to me the authors erred in attributing virtually all the motivation for the U.S. attack on Iraq to the Israel Lobby and the so-called “neo-conservatives” running our policy and armed forces. Was Israel an important factor? Indeed. But of equal importance, in my view, was the oil factor and what the Pentagon now calls the “enduring” military bases in Iraq, which the White House and Pentagon decided were needed for the U.S. to dominate that part of the Middle East.

    * Second, I was intrigued by the fact that Mearsheimer and Walt made no mention of what I believe to be, if not the most telling, then perhaps the most sensational proof of the power the Lobby knows it can exert over our government and Congress. In sum, in June 1967, after deliberately using fighter-bombers and torpedo boats to attack the USS Liberty for over two hours in an attempt to sink it and kill its entire crew, and then getting the U.S. government, the Navy, and the Congress to cover up what happened, the Israeli government learned that it could-literally-get away with murder.

I found myself looking out at 400 blank stares. The USS Liberty? And so I asked how many in the audience had heard of the attack on the Liberty on June 8, 1967. Three hands went up; I called on the gentleman nearest me.

Ramrod straight he stood:

    “Sir, Sergeant Bryce Lockwood, United States Marine Corps, retired. I am a member of the USS Liberty crew, Sir.”

Catching my breath, I asked him if he would be willing to tell us what happened.

    “Sir, I have not been able to do that. It is hard. But it has been almost 40 years, and I would like to try this evening, Sir.”

You could hear a pin drop for the next 15 minutes, as Lockwood gave us his personal account of what happened to him, his colleagues, and his ship on the afternoon of June 8, 1967. He was a linguist assigned to collect communications intelligence from the USS Liberty, which was among the ugliest-and most easily identifiable-ships in the fleet with antennae springing out in all directions.

skdadl

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The Israel Lobby
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2007, 02:20:40 PM »
I have heard bits and pieces of this story over the years -- I think especially the question of whether McNamara has been lying has been raised here and there. The man has had a lot of lies to confess to in these last years, hasn't he (he's 91 now). Maybe he could do us one last favour and clear this story up?  :evil:

lagatta

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The Israel Lobby
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2007, 10:40:15 AM »
The Forward, a somewhat-progressive but still Zionist Jewish paper in the US (with a very long history, as a very progressive voice in times past) has come out with a commentary about the history of the myth of Desmond Tutu as an "anti-semite" (franchement) who was said to have compared Israel to Hitler. The Tutu Heave-Ho
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

Toedancer

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 11:21:29 AM »
Israel lobby dominates Congress - Media Covers it up

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A staff member of one representative participating in this month’s junkets said the representative had no choice. If the congressional rep didn’t go on the trip, the rep would be targeted by AIPAC; large quantities of money, including massive out-of-state money, would be raised for the opponent in the next election; and quite likely the representative would be defeated. The staffer said that the Israel Lobby is far too powerful to ignore and that American voters have no knowledge of what’s going on.
It’s no surprise that voters are unaware that their representatives are being propagandized and pressured by a foreign lobby. Their news media almost never tells them.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Antonia

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It is when we all play safe that we create a world of utmost insecurity. It is when we all play safe that fatality will lead us to our doom. It is in the "dark shade of courage" alone that the spell can be broken.
-- Dag Hammarskjöld

Toedancer

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2011, 02:22:17 PM »
How far will U.S./Israel go to make sure P doesn't get statehood? The UN receives about 7 and a half Billion from the U.S. a year. They will call it the betrayal of the UN.
The US Senate has passed a resolution threatening to suspend financial assistance to the Palestinian Authority, and even if the UN resolution goes thru Israel still occupies Palestine.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Antonia

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2011, 01:06:57 PM »

Looks like AIPAC basically has only TWO major donors, to the tune of $60M. Who are they?

Some speculation to go with that question:

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As Americans nervously ponder their representatives' travel plans and AIPAC's nonstop lobbying for American economic and clandestine warfare on Israel's enemies, they must ask other serious questions. Who are the two people now providing the lion's share of AIPAC's funding? As long-time Washington Report on Middle East Affairs editor Janet McMahon revealed during the May 2011 Move Over AIPAC conference, it's not clear what percentage of AIPAC's donations come from American contributors and sources. Given AIPAC's influential leadership role at the head of a network of stealth political action committees it helped establish in the 1980s, will AIPAC's concentrated pool of core donors channel ever more extreme candidate guidance [.pdf] to the people who really count come election day, i.e., single-issue pro-Israel campaign contributors? What do the big AIPAC donors dispatching 20 percent of Congress to Israel think about trip-wiring the U.S. into an unwarranted military conflict with Iran? Americans should ask themselves whether any two people should have so much influence on U.S. Middle East policy.
It is when we all play safe that we create a world of utmost insecurity. It is when we all play safe that fatality will lead us to our doom. It is in the "dark shade of courage" alone that the spell can be broken.
-- Dag Hammarskjöld

Toedancer

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 09:43:39 PM »
Well, this makes sense, well okay I don't geddit entirely, but this is certainly a big reason the U.S./Israel do not want P to get statehood. The ICC and Operation Cast Lead.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israelis-could-face-trial-in-the-hague-if-palestinian-statehood-recognized-at-un-experts-warn-1.383144
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Toedancer

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2011, 11:05:28 AM »
According to Greenwald @ Salon, Long-time U.S. ally, Saudi Prince Turki al-Faisal, this weekend credibly detailed the multiple, serious harms to U.S. interests if it exercises its veto. 
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html


The article he refers to @ the NYT, veto and lose an ally.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/12/opinion/veto-a-state-lose-an-ally.html
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 11:05:43 AM by Toedancer »
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Boom Boom

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2011, 12:46:57 PM »


The article he refers to @ the NYT, veto and lose an ally.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/12/opinion/veto-a-state-lose-an-ally.html

I had just put that article on babble and someone complained about the author of the piece, calling it Saudi propaganda. WTF??? :confused

jrootham

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2011, 01:24:16 PM »
It's all about being lefter than thou.  Although noting the author is a Saudi official is a gloss on the credibility.


The suspect statement is about the Syrian regime, I see no evidence of it going away anytime soon.


Antonia

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2011, 01:17:07 AM »
Mondoweiss: Why did it take six years to talk about the Israel Lobby?


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When the sad inescapable truth six years ago was that the Jewish establishment was monolithically supportive of Israel, including journalists. As Alan Dershowitz said, American Jews regarded it as their sacred mission in the wake of the Holocaust to protect Jewish lives in Israel. At AIPAC, Chuck Schumer bragged that his name means Guardian in Hebrew, and he was Israel's guardian.
That has been the most significant change of the last six years. Maybe because their own children are rejecting Israel, maybe because Israel has swung so far right and crazy, maybe because of Gaza, the Jewish establishment has at last shown some diversity on the Israel/Palestine issue. And no one can say, as they could a few years ago, "The Jews support Israel." No, American Jews are finally having the beginnings of an open conversation. We've seen this at the grassroots with many synagogue debates--  replacing debates that used to take place at Lutheran churchs, featuring excommunicated Jews. In the weeks and months to come we are going to see more and more angry political clashes between pro-occupation Jews and anti-occupation Jews in the Establishment. And this long-awaited Jewish diversity will license the media to take the issue on.

Well I am not holding my breath, at least not in Canada.

That said, I think one factor Philip didn't mention is that all this anti-Iran talk, which is clearly in Israel's interest, is scaring the pants off reasonable people.


It is when we all play safe that we create a world of utmost insecurity. It is when we all play safe that fatality will lead us to our doom. It is in the "dark shade of courage" alone that the spell can be broken.
-- Dag Hammarskjöld

Toedancer

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Re: The Israel Lobby
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2012, 01:58:10 AM »
AIPAC is gearing up for Bibi
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/153377



Silobreaker had an article up re: Jonathan Pollard and his visit with Rav Schmuel Eliyahu and a delegation from
Leaders of the Conference of Presidents
. But then the article was immed. pulled down. A tiny screen shot was saved.http://www.silobreaker.com/pollard-plans-to-visit-kotel-when-he-is-released-5_2265496158375772213


So as you see it talks about what he'll do after he is released from prison. Except he doesn't get paroled until 2015. Remember Pollard was used as a bargaining chip between Clinton and Rabin and George Tenet said he'd quit if Clinton allowed Pollard to be released. Here is a 2010 article re that
http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/americas/jonathan-pollard-was-israels-odd-american-spy#fullGoogling around and you see dozens of articles of a huge effort to have him released, in an election year, so there will be lots of Senators and Congressholes around to make promises to. I wonder why the article was pulled? Bursting with joy and couldn't help it or something else? And Rav Schmuel Eliyahu, wow what a piece of work he is. This is some stuff he has said: Eliyahu advocated "carpet bombing the general area from which the Kassams were launched, regardless of the price in Palestinian life." Eliyahu is quoted saying that "If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand." And, "if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop."[1] According to Haaretz, in an article for the newsletter "Eretz Yisrael Shelanu" ("Our Land of Israel"), Eliyahu proposed "hanging the children of the terrorist who carried out the attack in the Mercaz Harav yeshiva from a tree."[2]


Guys a war mongering racist to say the least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuel_Eliyahu


The last time Bibi tried to get Pollard released and Obama was considering clemency Biden jumped in and said 'over my dead body'. I'm not sure if Biden refuted he said that. If you scroll down to bottom of Silobreaker you'll see Robert McFarlane wrote to Obama on Pollards behalf. Wasn't McFarlane pardoned by Bush for the Iran/Contra mess?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 02:08:12 AM by Toedancer »
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

 

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