Author Topic: tar sands  (Read 57677 times)

Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2010, 12:30:08 PM »
Just listening to Ezra's opening statement - he's a saint!  Sacrificing Alberta's environment in the most progressive liberal ethical way to help poor people and women in Saudi Arabia, etc., etc.
 
Andrew quotes someone "oil is the devil's tears" and brings up other stuff like the bitumen pollution in the river, etc., etc.  Canada can do better.
 
E: it's in the oil companys' interest to do better.
 
J: are environmentalists wrong on this?

E: No, but TO air quality is worse than the oilsands.  Alberta getting better. Should not replace our pretty good oil with evil oil.  Is selling Canada's oil a moral improvement?
 
A: that's not the choice. Bloody oil in the ME or dirty oil here.  Every oil country has the same problems to deal with.
 
E: how bad it is in Sudan.
 
A:  there's no such thing as ethical oil...  The issue is switching from light oil you have to change business.  Alta and oil cos. want to pretend nothing has changed.  High ethical price of oil consumption.
 
E: Can hardly wait for this new energy source to come (after J asked about cutting down)  Says A avoids the thesis of his book which is a challenge to A's book.
 
A: we have disfunctional democracy in Alberta (E getting all excited; J reigns him in)  A: we have refused to have a national conversation about how oil changes our character, ethics etc.
 
[I got a little lost here]
 
A says resources do not have ethics.
 
E Greenpeace does not want a solution.  etc.
 
A: he's not on Greenpeace's payroll; etc
 
E says he's not taken oil money
 
'Saudi Alberta' result of disfunction, etc
 
A: political parties refuse to address the issues raised; Lougheed said let's talk about it, slow down, go one project at a time E: Saudi ambassador says slow down too [out of self-interest etc]
 
A: Lougheed has set the standard and no one [in political parties] has replied to him.
 
J: asks if E considers self an environmentalist, E sidesteps.
 
A: US military identifies []  and climate change as a risk [then was cut off before he finished his sentence and J wound up.
 
 
ETA: this liveblogging aint easy!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 12:33:11 PM by Holly Stick »
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Boom Boom

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2010, 12:58:39 PM »
Just listening to Ezra's opening statement - he's a saint!  Sacrificing Alberta's environment in the most progressive liberal ethical way to help poor people and women in Saudi Arabia, etc., etc.

This is the type of nonsense Ezzie was sprouting on P&P yesterday or the day before.
 
ETA: Evan Solomon commented that "ethical oil" sounds like an oxymoron. :))
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 01:04:53 PM by Boom Boom »

Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2010, 01:03:01 PM »
This is the type of nonsense Ezzie was sprouting on P&P yesterday or the day before.

I don't know if Andrew or anyone has used the phrase "blood oil" that Ezra mentioned, but I think he is riffing on the idea of boycotting blood diamonds to say tarsands oil is ethical oil.
 
He complained in an email that Andrew didn't engage him (the one time Ezra started getting into the rhythm of a major diatribe, Jian cut him short - it was great!) but I think Andrew got his own message out pretty well.  Ezra's message is pretty superficial anyway.
 
http://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/24570009498
 
ETA: he was hoping Nikiforuk would attack him and his book.
 
http://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/24570682979
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 01:11:12 PM by Holly Stick »
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Boom Boom

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2010, 01:06:47 PM »
Just listening to Ezra's opening statement - he's a saint!  Sacrificing Alberta's environment in the most progressive liberal ethical way to help poor people and women in Saudi Arabia, etc., etc.

Who knew that Ezzie was such a progressive?  ::)

Boom Boom

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2010, 01:12:19 PM »
Just listening to Ezra's opening statement - he's a saint!  Sacrificing Alberta's environment in the most progressive liberal ethical way to help poor people and women in Saudi Arabia, etc., etc.

Ezzie really pisses me off with this "ethical oil" bullshit. I guess he forgets the impact the tarsands have had on aboriginal peoples in Canada. If he needs a reminder, here's a link.
 
excerpt:
 
Many aboriginal groups are being left out of the process and run over in the race for development of the tar sands. First Nations in Alberta, Saskatchewan and the Northwest Territories have claimed that traditional lands are being destroyed for tar sands exploration and extraction, and First Nations are not being included, or properly compensated for their lost and destroyed lands and water supplies.

Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2010, 12:34:47 AM »
U of Alberta Medical Students Association speaking out about Fort Chip health situation.
 
http://straightouttaedmonton.blogspot.com/2010/09/med-students-speak-out-on-ft-chip-issue.html
 
Also this is the thread about Dr. O'Connor as whistleblower at Fort Chip:
 
http://breadnroses.ca/community/index.php/topic,3385.45.html
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Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2010, 02:29:09 PM »
Schindler has a website showing abnormal fish from Athabasca River.  The website needs work, I'd say; it needs more explanation, etc.
http://athabascafish.wordpress.com/
 
Hat tip http://straightouttaedmonton.blogspot.com/2010/09/schindler-unhealthy-fish-presentation.html
 
ETA: CBC report:
 
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/09/16/edmonton-oilsands-deformed-fish.html
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 04:05:28 PM by Holly Stick »
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2010, 01:18:49 AM »
A whole bunch of links about the scientists and the Alberta government:
 
http://straightouttaedmonton.blogspot.com/2010/09/sciencefort-chipewyan-vs-alberta.html
 
and more about deformed fish:
 
http://straightouttaedmonton.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-it-matters.html
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Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2010, 09:00:39 PM »
A pretty good review of Ezra Levant's book:
 
Quote
...Levant is a good writer and a better debater. He is witty, provocative and relentless in his sense of certainty. He clearly has fun pillorying ethical investment funds, Greenpeace, the Pembina Institute and his bete noir, Calgary-based pro-green writer Andrew Nikiforuk.
He is also a master of logical fallacy and half-truth...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/entertainment/books/levants-oil-polemic-witty-but-that-doesnt-make-it-right-103194869.html
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Croghan27

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2010, 08:19:27 AM »
A pretty good review of Ezra Levant's book:
 
Quote
...Levant is a good writer and a better debater. He is witty, provocative and relentless in his sense of certainty. He clearly has fun pillorying ethical investment funds, Greenpeace, the Pembina Institute and his bete noir, Calgary-based pro-green writer Andrew Nikiforuk.
He is also a master of logical fallacy and half-truth...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/entertainment/books/levants-oil-polemic-witty-but-that-doesnt-make-it-right-103194869.html

He certainly is a witty debater .... "you cowardly bastard" is a riposte that is sans parallel in civilized debate.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Croghan27

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2010, 02:03:46 PM »
If anyone thinks that tar/oil sands development has slacken off ..... here is a bit from Enbridge. (I used to own a bunch of that company - but got out)
Quote
LOS ANGELES, Sept. 10 --   Enbridge Inc. has entered into an agreement to provide pipeline and   terminaling services to the proposed Husky Energy-operated Sunrise Oil   Sands Project.

The Sunrise project is part of a 50-50   joint-venture of Husky and BP PLC, which links the Canadian company's   oil sands production with the British firm’s US refineries. Sunrise has   estimated total probable and possible reserves of 3.7 billion bbl.

The   agreement marks the eighth to be included in Enbridge's oil sands   transportation system by 2013, and is the third to be announced by the   firm in the past few weeks.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2010, 11:50:05 AM »
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2010, 04:23:53 PM »
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Holly Stick

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2010, 08:50:33 PM »
Peter Foster helps flog Levant's book. This bit is intriguing - I want more details!
 
Quote
...Mr. Levant has certainly already raised the ire of his opponents. Police had to be called to a book signing in Saskatoon...

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/09/21/peter-foster-ethical-oil/

ETA: The newspaper story:
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Author+confronts+protesters+oilsands+book+event/3544448/story.html
 
and Levant's (some discrepancies):
http://ezralevant.com/2010/09/does-the-us-first-amendment-pr.html
 
A report says the tar/oilsands are not so bad; but I'll wait for experts to judge it:
 
http://www.canada.com/business/Oilsands+products+emit+some+think+Study/3558576/story.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 09:01:30 PM by Holly Stick »
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Antonia

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Re: tar sands
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2010, 09:37:08 PM »
Quote
Peter Foster helps flog Levant's book.

Between Foster and Corcoran, the Financial Post opinion page is the Climate Change Denial Page.
It is when we all play safe that we create a world of utmost insecurity. It is when we all play safe that fatality will lead us to our doom. It is in the "dark shade of courage" alone that the spell can be broken.
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