Author Topic: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box  (Read 9139 times)

Berlynn

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2008, 02:19:38 PM »
Sigh.
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

skdadl

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2008, 02:31:17 PM »
Well, I'll have to think for a while before I know what to say about that presentation. Dion  takes on far too much every time he speaks, so he has to sound just plain confusing to many people.

skdadl

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2008, 11:58:26 AM »
Well, here is a rip-roaringly good deconstruction of capitalism as anathema to democracy, by a sort-of establishment journalist, Chris Hedges.

Via friend mahigan, via Kos.

Toedancer

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2008, 11:19:54 AM »
http://takebackdemocracy.ca/

This guy has been thru hell and back, yet he continues to fight for democracy.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Toedancer

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2008, 11:13:12 PM »
Quote from: skdadl
Well, here is a rip-roaringly good deconstruction of capitalism as anathema to democracy, by a sort-of establishment journalist, Chris Hedges.

wOOt! Great read, thanks skdadl.

And Coyne wonders if low voter turnout in Canada 'may' be resistance.

If you bother to read the comments (some are very good) you will see the disdain involved voters feel about the non-involved, as in 'those people' simply can't be trusted to not muck up the outcome! So fucking elitist.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Alison

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2008, 11:58:00 PM »
Quote
'those people' simply can't be trusted to not muck up the outcome

Ian Coutts wrote to this repeatedly a year ago in the G&M in the lead up to Ontario's vote on MMP. He didn't approve of the Ontario Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform because it wasn't made up of experts, and he didn't like MMP because once people realized their vote would actually count, many more of them would vote. He was of the opinion that this was a bad thing!
MMP and the MSM

Mandos

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2008, 12:44:22 AM »
It's behind a subscription wall.  Grr.  However, I know that e.g. Randroids definitely feel that more voters == bad.  It's well known that 50% of the population gets more out of taxes than they put in.  Therefore, it is feared that more voters will start to vote themselves helpings of tax money, and we'd all end up (horrors) like Sweden.

asrai

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2008, 04:49:55 PM »
All I know of how the Canadian government works I definatly learned recently as I become aware that if I don't speak up loudly to the people who can make governmental change. Social studies has little to do with how the government works. Most of the teachers I had growing up (in rural SK) merely regurgitated what was in the text book and we memorized that and regurgitated it back on the tests.

Of course, I was also obligated to learn about angles of refraction and reflection. When am I going to use that? In my next pool game I guess.

It would be nice it school studies reflected real world instances.

Like in  social studies where students learned about the real world around them. In math people could learn to budget and save and how credit card rates work and mortages. And children learned to socialize and manage emotions. And that we encouraged debates and discussions. And students wrote papers on opinions rather than again, slamming back facts found in the 1987 or 1990 World Book Encylopedia in 1997.

Instead we have this hell bent cirriculum that says we have to teach students to memorize facts which mean NOTHING to them.

And hi. Yes I am reading older threads. The coalition debate has got me thinking.

Berlynn

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2008, 05:25:31 PM »
Hey asrai, I also went to school in rural SK, but my experience of learning about government was very different!  Hugely, different, actually.  In grades 5, 8 and 12 we learned about Canada, each time at a deeper level.  Maybe it's just that I was a keener, or maybe it's that I'm older.

Hmm...but my kids, now in an urban centre, learned about systems of government, too.  In fact, my daughter probably knows a lot more now than I did at her age.

Interesting.  Maybe it's a hit and miss thing... :?
Never retreat, never explain, never apologize--get the thing done and let them howl.  -- Nellie McClung

brebis noire

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2008, 08:03:06 PM »
It really depends a lot on the teacher. I had a wonderful social studies teacher in grades 9, 10 and 12 (there was no gr. 11 social studies, and in gr. 12 it was an option, very few people took it.) In grade 10 we studied the Parliamentary system, and I learned enough to be able to keep paying attention and absorb the gist of things, but not enough to be able to explain it in any detail, or predict the scenarios, or make any interesting comparisons with other systems (though I can follow other people's explanations very easily.)
 
But now I have a keener in grade 5 who wants to understand how everything works, at the municipal, provincial, federal, U.S. and international levels - he wants to know everything, right now, and expects me to explain it all with a bit of added infotainment. Keeps me on my toes.  :shock:

Re the hit and miss, we're seeing something similar here in Quebec now with the new ethics and religion class that is compulsory from grades 1-11 (grade 12 would be first year cegep). The weak point of the program is that it's taught by the homeroom teacher in elementary school at least, and depending on the teacher's level of interest in the subject, or even his or her personal biases, it can be a real hit. Or not. The curriculum itself looks interesting though.

Toedancer

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2009, 09:55:42 PM »
To continue the ongoing bullshite which only protects the integrity of the capitalist class and with the scum sucking money grubbing x-PM's reputation now on the line (finally!), that would be Mulroney of course and Schreiber's promise of a shock to us on May 14th and with B.C. going to the polls in May with the only question on the ballot that interests me and maybe the only breakthrough on electoral reform  May 12th I thought it would be important to remind people that there are still 90 undemocratic and accountability loopholes which no one in the corporate media seems much interested in. But I do, because it will literally mean I will remain in the political wilderness for years to come.

May Day, May Day! Should be an interesting month.

eta - sorry Schreiber takes the stand APRIL 14th, so interesting spring then.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Croghan27

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2009, 09:10:26 PM »
If some kind of proportional representation was rejected in B.C. - one of my favourite commentators, Polly Toynbee of the Guardian, thinks that the current outrage about the 'perks' that British parliamentarians awarded themselves may advance the cause there.
Quote
They must go because what matters is public wrath turning against the very idea of political parties, as if belonging to a party were itself a corruption. Listen to the call of the wild as people say they want a parliament of independents, hoping that good plain folk, truth-speakers and honest citizens will get elected as a great assembly of the people.

The solution to all party corruption is to "bring in proportional representation for the Commons".

Sort of a political "solution to pollution is dilution".

Article is here.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Toedancer

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2009, 10:48:36 PM »
Prepare to Stand as Cleans! ha something vaguely Atwoodish and Orwellian about that statement, wot?
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Toedancer

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2009, 03:26:44 PM »
The Federal Court of Canada is to hear arguments against the election call last fall by Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

Neo-Cons - Litigation R Us!  DW set to argue before the court on  Sept. 8th.

Grrr eta fix link
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Alison

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Re: Democracy Doesn't Fit Into the Ballot Box
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2009, 04:00:22 PM »
Go, Duff! At the very least this might reignite some discussion on which is the greater outrage - following our Westminster system of government or pulling the plug on government to prevent a non-confidence vote.

 

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