Author Topic: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.  (Read 15385 times)

deBeauxOs

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Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« on: September 15, 2010, 02:43:13 PM »
Shale gas is being promoted in the province of Québec as an Eldorado that will end dependency on Alberta oil from tar sands.  I expect that it will extend to Ontario as soon as companies get their exploration licences for prospecting gas deposits in your back yard.
 
Radio-Canada has been on top of these stories for over a month.
 
Here is the latest, at CBC: Shale gas companies meet strong opposition.
 
A documentary about the disastrous effects on artesian wells, ground water and people's health in Pennsylvia, where drilling using a process called 'fracking' has been employed, was released last June.
 
GasLand:
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A new documentary purporting to expose the hazards of onshore natural gas drilling illustrates its point with startling images of people setting fire to water flowing from faucets in their homes.
 
"GasLand," [...] fuels the debate over shale gas and the extraction process known as hydraulic fracturing, which involves blasting millions of gallons of water, sand and diluted chemicals into shale rock, breaking it apart to free the gas.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 02:44:04 PM by deBeauxOs »

Boom Boom

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 02:48:24 PM »
GasLand:
Quote
A new documentary purporting to expose the hazards of onshore natural gas drilling illustrates its point with startling images of people setting fire to water flowing from faucets in their homes.

I saw that film this summer on TMN, linked it on my FB page, and I'm sure I commented on it here at BNR although I can't remember which thread.

Antonia

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 08:25:28 PM »
Fracking.

Perfect.
It is when we all play safe that we create a world of utmost insecurity. It is when we all play safe that fatality will lead us to our doom. It is in the "dark shade of courage" alone that the spell can be broken.
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Croghan27

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2010, 09:56:00 PM »
Shale gas is being promoted in the province of Québec as an Eldorado that will end dependency on Alberta oil from tar sands.  I expect that it will extend to Ontario as soon as companies get their exploration licences for prospecting gas deposits in your back yard.
 
snip

Maybe not an Eldorado, but in one of my gas/oil journals they list the drilling projects in North America - naturally Texas is numero uno, the, of all places, North Dakota is #2.

The ND formation also reaches into Manitoba where considerable drilling is starting. Out of (say) ten drilling sites in the world now. (Poland among others has large shale deposits) I would say that 6 are in shale oil/gas fields.

There is a broad depost of shale in the northern mid-western states and another that stretches through Ohio, east through NY state (espcecially in the NYC watershed  :o ) and up into Quebec. Frack them all .... the gas/oil/condensate is trapped inside the rock formations and by pumping HP water into them, say, at 12,000psi, the rock is FRACTURED and the hydrocarbon is set free.

I did a lot of work with a small company in Alberta named FRACKMASTER that specialized in that (it is useful in extending the life of dry producing wells) - it was later taken over by Cheney's Halliburton - who made life wretched for the workers.

Remember that for the last ten years more oil has been pumped out of the ground than has been found. Petrobas, the Brazilian oil company has just found a field off shore with 10 billion barrels (estimate) and that will bring up the numbers.

Alberta has been pumping out more oil than finding since 1972.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

deBeauxOs

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Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2010, 10:34:42 PM »
My knowledge of what the fracking process entails is limited, Croghie but a basic principle of physics is that if a volume is deplaced or removed, that an equivalent volume will move in to occupy the space vacated.
 
What are the short and long-term effects of this geological manipulation?  Does it create huge sinkholes? - after all, the shale that has been containing the underground gas has now been fractured in the process of releasing it.

Croghan27

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2010, 06:07:18 AM »
from deBeauxOs

Quote
What are the short and long-term effects of this geological   manipulation?  Does it create huge sinkholes? - after all, the shale   that has been containing the underground gas has now been fractured in   the process of releasing it.

Fracking has long been used to extend the life of normal oil wells. The oil is not just there in big pools, even if the formations are called pools, it is trapped within small indentations and crevasse in the rock itself. What causes things like 'gushers' is that it is between two heavy and hard formations that puts pressure on the oil bearing area. The fracking water replaces the pressure from the pancaking hard rock formations.

Shale formations have long been known as oil bearing ... they are often like the Alberta Oil Sands ... often laying on the surface. The bunch of Welshmen I worked with and mentioned another context, originality came to N. America to work in an oil shale plant in the US. (The union said .. "WDF - we have members unemployed and you (the company) are bring in non-Americans for your plant???" - they were terminated and came to Syncrude. (Carter was da Pres, then.)

Shale rock is a sedimentary rock - layed down and solidified over thousands (millions) of years ... it is frequently mud and general gunk from river bottoms, but as such, often contain plants and animals and dinosaur shit that makes up the same stuff that causes conventional oil/coal/ formations. Peat is frequently used for heating/cooking fires .... I was told that peat is 'oil to be' by one geologist. Note that the NY, Marcellus shale is connected to the famous coal depots of W, Virginia.

The big problem in NY state and in the NYC watershed, is that the water used for fracking will also migrate into the local aquifers and pollute them. New York City spends about a billion dollars a year on its' water supply and the state protects it jealously. 

(Remember IANA geologist - but have worked with people that have been involved in shale oil projects in a proletarian way, rather than having an academic perspective.)


(ps can you get ahold of me, I have something I want to ask you.)
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Holly Stick

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2010, 05:54:12 PM »
Nikiforuk about the effect of fracking on water supplies, in NE BC and elseewhere:
 
http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/10/15/FrackingDisaster/index.html
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Croghan27

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2010, 09:28:19 AM »
Nikiforuk about the effect of fracking on water supplies, in NE BC and elseewhere:
 
http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/10/15/FrackingDisaster/index.html

BP that used to be very big in fracking in northern BC has sold it all to Apache Corporation.
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In Western Canada, Apache is paying $3.25 billion   to purchase 1.3 million acres that include emerging unconventional   plays, such as Montney, Cadomin, Doig and coalbed methane. Operating   areas include Noel, Ojay, Chinchaga, Wapiti, Fox Creek, Edson, Marten   Hills, South West and St. Lina, as well as the Mist Mountain coal bed   methane project. The estimated proven reserves for the Canadian portion   of the acquisition equals 224 million barrels of oil equivalent, 94   percent of which is natural gas. Furthermore, during the first half of   2010, the net production from the region reached 6,529 barrels of   liquids and 240 million cubic feet of natural gas a day.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Croghan27

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2010, 08:11:02 AM »
Wassis that German word? Schadenfreude?

I know the matter is too serious to be made fun of .... but.....but ...but ..after years of seeing fair and'unbiased' panels in both the US and Canada (and probably Britain too) being stacked to ensure the desired corporation friendly result it is warming to hear that the Domestic Energy Producers Alliance is irked that too many of them thar flakey environmental type have been installed on a peer-review panel that will look closely at a United States   Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) study of the drilling practice.
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Proposed panelists in question include: a zoologist and pharmacist whose   group has attempted to document the damage that hydraulic fracturing   can do to water and human health; a Cornell University professor, who   authored a widely panned (and much protested) “study” on fracturing’s   climate-change impact; an author and breast cancer expert, who explores   links between human rights and the environment; a Colorado School of   Public Health adjunct professor, who was featured in the film Split   Estate; a geochemist from Stratus Consulting geochemist and former   Environmental Defense Fund director; a director for the Center for   Global Safe Water at Emory University; a University of Wyoming geologist   and author of Garfield Company’s “study” pinning hydraulic fracturing   on groundwater contamination; a University of Massachusetts Lowell   public health professor and leading proponent of “precautionary   principle”; and a Boston University epidemiologist and member of the   Toxics Use Reduction Institute science Advisory Board.

Tee Hee Hee ..... Tee Hee Hee .....  :)) ahem ...  :confused
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 08:12:27 AM by Croghan27 »
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Holly Stick

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2011, 01:48:59 AM »
More about serious problems with fracking:
 
Quote
An incredible piece just broke in the New York Times showing that hydraulic fracking in the Marcellus Shale is drawing huge amounts of radioactivity up from the earth with the fracking fluids, often going straight through a municipal waste water treatment plant and then dumped into rivers -- above public drinking water intake locations.  The piece proves that EPA knows this is going on, and that it is likely illegal...

http://www.desmogblog.com/must-read-ny-times-story-gas-fracking-reveals-radioactive-wastewater-threat
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/us/27gas.html?_r=1
 
another BnR thread about fracking:
 
http://breadnroses.ca/community/index.php/topic,5105.msg187085.html#msg187085
 
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Croghan27

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2011, 10:41:40 AM »
Most of the articles I get in my Oil&Gas Journals are about the discovery and drilling phase of hydrocarbon production, something I have not been concerned with - the tar sands formation if generally there for all to see.
 
Yet in N. America and a few other places (Australia and Poland, no less) shale fracking is now the major method of recovery. (The liquids are usually in the form of condensed gases as natural gas is what is trapped in the formations.) An indication of the extent of the fracking is that the Dakotas in the US have more activity then all other states with the exception of Texas.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Holly Stick

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2011, 12:17:51 PM »
The Tyee about fracking using up water in BC:
 
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/03/15/OurWaterSuckedAway/
 
DeSmogBlog posts about fracking, including recent news about Quebec allowing drilling but not fracking at present:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/directory/vocabulary/5133
 
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Holly Stick

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 05:53:13 PM »
DesmogBlog has several articles about fracking, including this recent one about New Brunswick:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/new-brunswick-canada-s-next-shale-gas-fracking-battle-front
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/directory/vocabulary/5133
 
RealClimate discusses the emissions caused by fracking and the need for better measurement:
 
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/04/fracking-methane/
 
Note that shale gas is mostly methane, and methane is a greenhouse gas.
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

Antonia

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Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2011, 08:44:00 PM »
Between natural gas, crude, this and I don't know what else, I am now convinced we are creating earthquakes.
It is when we all play safe that we create a world of utmost insecurity. It is when we all play safe that fatality will lead us to our doom. It is in the "dark shade of courage" alone that the spell can be broken.
-- Dag Hammarskjöld

Holly Stick

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« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 01:08:59 PM by Holly Stick »
Economics is a human creation, borders are human creations and nature doesn’t give a damn about these things. - David Suzuki

 

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