Author Topic: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters  (Read 12116 times)

lagatta

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 10:10:53 AM »
Bit more on topic, as related by Le Devoir, is the fact that a daughter of Ben Ali, Nesrine Ben ali, and her hubby, the powerful businessman Sakher el-Materi bought a posh house in Westmount in 2008. At least Nesrine is here now, in the process of having a baby - no idea if the baby and his or her Canadian passport are born as of yet.

Yep, quite a few Tunisians here (though more Algerians and Moroccans) of Muslim and Jewish confessions. Huge Tunisian community, again of those religious groups, in Paris. There had been some wildly overpublicised bad blood between the communities, in large part due to Israel/Palestine, but actually they live in the same central neighbourhoods and suburbs, and usually get along very well.

I'm amused by Croghan's trilingual macho text. Are you sure it was in Yiddish? Maghrebi Jews don't speak Yiddish; their community language is Ladino (a mixture of archaic Spanish, Hebrew, Arabic elements). Like Yiddish and many other Jewish dialects (Judeo-Italian for one) it is written in a modified Hebrew alphabet. Though the fellow could have picked up Yiddish from Eastern European coreligionists.

Edited to add: A comment piece (in French) "Héroique peuple tunisien" by Monia Mazigh, whom we know best as the no less heroic woman who fought for her husband Maher Arar http://www.ledevoir.com/international/afrique/314742/heroique-peuple-tunisien
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 10:13:54 AM by lagatta »
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

Toedancer

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2011, 12:14:12 PM »
Fascinating really. THIS has the feeling of the fall of Saigon  :popcorn
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Croghan27

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2011, 12:40:18 PM »
Fascinating really. THIS has the feeling of the fall of Saigon  :popcorn

while it is similar to Saigon it reminds me of Harper sending (renting) ships to Lebanon to rescue Canadian nationals while Hezbollah was straigntening out the IDF.
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Toedancer

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"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

skdadl

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2011, 07:09:14 PM »
I don't know for sure but strongly suspect that RFE is a US government front organization.

It's true that this sort of debate is going on all over the place, and it doesn't mean much unless people work from actual examples. The truth certainly is that people went out into the streets and put their bodies on the line. But a lot of those people were young people with cellphones, texting the whole time in ways I wouldn't know how to do, so it's silly to say that the social media weren't a factor, especially since Ben Ali tried to shut them down and failed.

ETA: Here is a very abbreviated (I suspect censored) history.

The CIA claim not to have been influencing RFE since 1972, but if anyone believes that, I have this bridge ...

The US gov't has a heavy investment in making people believe that Twitter (and probably FB) are just toys (because they are so much more), and WL is actively evil (because it isn't).
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 07:22:22 PM by skdadl »

lagatta

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2011, 08:54:07 PM »
I was actually surprised to see Toedancer citing RFE, which I always thought continued to be a CIA and other US govt stuff front organisation, but the article did seem legitimate, and made what to me seemed important points.

Social movements, from my local tenant's association and neighourhood groups taking a stand against anti-Inuit racism right up to revolutions, have always relied on every bit of current media technology we could afford and could master. In the 1980s, I remember student struggles in Italy and France (I was living in Italy at the time) using faxes as the cutting edge, and writing "Fax ergo sum" on walls. The press, mass meetings and incipient audio and visual media were a key tool for the radical left - and the radical right - at the turn of the last century.

I've worked a lot in activist media, from the far left through a mainstreamish but very militant/radical trade union confederation to ecosocialist stuff, but at the same time I really don't believe in "internet activism". These are very powerful tools, but meaningless if we don't get people on streets, bums in seats and at certain conjunctures, people willing to put their bodies on the line as in Tunisia and many other places. That is not something the CIA wants to foster.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

skdadl

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2011, 09:53:35 PM »
Heh. The fax revolution was supposed to have been revived briefly last week when the court order that Twitter challenged was published by the clients who were notified -- and there, on the order, was the fax number of a person in the US DoJ who had signed for the government. I don't have a working fax any longer, but I would have done the old-fashioned black-page thing if I had. I know it's futile, but a small impression might have been made.

Och. In most of the West, it's futile. People are still too comfortable. They may be disgruntled, but they're not ready to do anything but argue meaningless electoral politics.

Toedancer

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2011, 10:29:09 PM »
Well thanks for letting me know, cuz I didn't. Srsly. Had suspicions mind you, from other posts here and there, but am so glad you have outed so well. 

 People are still too comfortable. They may be disgruntled, but they're   not ready to do anything but argue meaningless electoral politics.

That's the truth.
"Democracy is not the law of the majority, it's the protection of the minority." -Albert Camus 1913-1960

Croghan27

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2011, 06:29:42 AM »
I was actually surprised to see Toedancer citing RFE, which I always thought continued to be a CIA and other US govt stuff front organisation, but the article did seem legitimate, and made what to me seemed important points.
snip

Slightly OT. I once had a book about the involvment of the CIA in commercial broadcasting. The CIA overcame it's distaste for American government involvment in the private sector when it saw how effective the BBC was during the war. (What was the phrase that signaled to the resistance that Normandy was about to go ..."The eagle flies at midnight."  - I believe that it a parady, but the idea works.)  :confused
 
They also got into recording business .... a pair called Paul and Paula, a couple of squeaky clean born-against from Texas, were financed, promoted and unleashed on an unsuspecting public. "Oh Paul, I want to marry you...." is one of the more insipid lines ever to make to the top 10. They also sang that unforgettable "West of the wall ....(where hearts are free)"
 
Remember it was only a few years later that the daughter of an Admiral, Gracy Slick and her lover Paul Kantner with the Jefferson Starship released "Blows Against The Empire".
 
FWIW The music on Radio Moscow was much better.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 06:30:52 AM by Croghan27 »
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

skdadl

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2011, 08:00:50 AM »
Paul and Paula were a CIA project? I did not know that. But yes, that's one of the worst pop songs ever -- beats "You're having my baby" by miles.

There seem to be uprisings in several places in Libya today. Interesting ...

Croghan27

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2011, 08:43:59 AM »
Paul and Paula were a CIA project? I did not know that. But yes, that's one of the worst pop songs ever -- beats "You're having my baby" by miles.

There seem to be uprisings in several places in Libya today. Interesting ...

That gave me some interest in the pair so I bothered to follow them a bit. They did get married (to each other) and moved west of the wall .... well, west Texas.
 
The situation in Tunisia makes me think of New Brunswick politics. A journalist (obviously not from the totally Irving owned NB media) once asked 'a source' who Mr. Irving supported in the election. (I believe it was the first one the Acadian Louis Robichaud won.) The response went into New Brunswick history ..... "Mr. Irving does not support political parties .... but Mr. Irving has never lost an election."
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

Croghan27

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2011, 08:59:02 AM »
From the BBC ..... (why Washington is a cynic generator  :annoyed )
 
Quote

In Washington, President Barack Obama has been quick to denounce the excesses of the Tunisian police, and voice the hope that the country will move towards a more democratic future.
 
As the riots continued in Tunis, his Secretary of State Hillary Clinton - at the end of a visit to the Gulf - delivered a blistering critique of corruption and political stagnation in the region.

Had they (Obama/Clinton) managed to squeeze it in between  praise for the notorious dictatorial beasts in Jordan/Egypt and several others before the oppressed people took matters in their own hands, some creds would have been established.
 
The article mentions other countries without naming them save for next door Algeria: ".....the unrest may spread. It is already apparent - and for broadly similar reasons - in neighbouring Algeria."
"It is also a good rule not to put overmuch confidence in the observational results that are put forward until they are confirmed by theory." -- Arthur Stanley Eddington

skdadl

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2011, 09:30:21 AM »
Interesting: someone at the State Department is RTing tweets about unrest in Libya -- see @eDipAtState.

lagatta

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2011, 09:42:15 AM »
Obama's statement, beyond its hypocrisy, is also an expression of interimperialist rivalry, in order to muscle out French (and EU) influence by claiming to be less compromised with thugs such as Ben Ali. Obviously bullshit - Ben Ali also has strong Washington ties.
" Eure \'Ordnung\' ist auf Sand gebaut. Die Revolution wird sich morgen schon \'rasselnd wieder in die Höhe richten\' und zu eurem Schrecken mit Posaunenklang verkünden: \'Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!\' "
Rosa Luxemburg

skdadl

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Re: Tunisian govt violent attacks against protesters
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2011, 10:07:04 AM »

 

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