the BASEBALL thread...

[Tommy Shanks]

What are you trying to do John D, get me fired?

I've just learned:

Joe DiMaggio was passed over by the Hall Of Fame in his first year of eligibility.

Richie Ashburn was the first batter to hit the same fan twice in the same at-bat with foul balls.

Elmer Smith (of the Indians) hit the first grand slam in World Series history in the first inning of the game.

On Opening Day at Comiskey Park (in 1940), future Hall of Fame pitcher Bob Feller threw the first no hitter during an Opening Day contest in Major League history.

What a great site.

[Debra]

Quick without looking when is your significant others birthday?  :D

[Tommy Shanks]

October 26. *beam*

[skdadl]

Hmmn. A Scorpio.

[k'in]

John-that is a great site.  I have a hard copy of the Baseball Almanac  somewhere.  It sure doesn't have 110,000 pages though.

Baseball is interesting historically when it interesects with overall social trends.  Ty Cobb was a nasty human being, but he was a pretty tenacious labour activist.  His battles with cheapskate Tigers owner, Frank Navin are legendary.  The one story I like is when Cobb, after winning his 4th? batting title n a row, wanted a big salary increase (4500 to 10000).  Navin of course said no way so Cobb held out.  Finally Navin caved & agreed to pay the 10,000.  He wanted to do the big press conference & suckered Cobb into a publicty stunt where Navin write the salary figure into the contract at the press conference (only Navin & Cobb knew the number).  At the press conference, Navin wrote in 9,000. Cobb whispered in Navin's ear, threatened him & the tightwad changed the number back to the agreed upon 10,000.  Cobb was also behind the first ever strike (1912) which led to the first ever union (Baseball Player's Fraternity).  The first concession they got from the owners was that no player could be designated for assignment to a lower classification team without other higher classification teams having a chance to bid on them .  

The Pirates were the first team to ever field an all-black lineup (1971):
Manager Danny Murtaugh’s lineup card looked like this:
Rennie Stennett, 2B,
Gene Clines, CF,
(The great) Roberto Clemente, RF,
Willie Stargell, LF,
Manny Sanguillen, C,
Dave Cash, 3B
Al Oliver, 1B,
Jackie Hernandez, SS,
Dock Ellis, P.

Dock Ellis is legendary for throwing a no hitter while stoned on acid.

I haven't followed along much this year but I'm thinking that bringing Jim Leyland back to the organization has to be a huge part of the reason for the Tiger's turnaround.  He was an early adopter of the Moneyball philosophy in his seemingly irritating adherence to matchups based on statistical history and his expertise in getting the little things right with the '92 Pirates.  That team just didn't beat itself.  Until the gold glove 2nd baseman Jose Lind dropped an easy popup.

I saw an unassisted triple play that year.  Jeff King lined to Micky Morandini of the Phillies who stepped on second (getting van Slyke) & tagged Barry Bonds (they were both running on the pitch).

Baseball has a rich history & like Tommy says. you trying to get us fired :)

[Debra]

October 26. *beam*

SAFE!!  :lol:

[Tommy Shanks]

Hmmn. A Scorpio.

?

What is the significance of that, as I know as much about astrology as I do Mennonite weaving.

I'd agree to a point about Cobb, as he also helped indigent players later on when he was well off because of his investments and such. However, he was such a nasty piece of work that you have to think he really only did things like that for himself. Sure he hated owners like Nevin, but he also hated other players, fans and such, perhaps just a wee bit less.

Regarding that Pirate line-up, they had some talent in there besides Clemente; Stargell, Oliver, and Sanguillen were pretty fair players and Ellis was a pretty good pitcher.

Man this thing is great. Just looked up bunch of my favourite Pirates of all time: Kent Tekulve, Omar Moreno, and Steve Blass.

Thanks again.  :roll:

[k'in]

I read Cobb's autobiography (*his* version , not the edited one that was the basis for the movie).  He was definitely a nasty, negative character, hated everything & everybody.  Yet, his teammates backed him up when he was suspended (walked out in uniform when they got to the ballpark in Philadelphia & found out he wasn't allowed to play). Maybe they were afraid of him. He managed the Tigers too. When he died in '61 his personal fortune was estimated at 10 million dollars (lots of c(h)oke and auto stock).

That '71 Pirate lineup had to be the finest in franchise history.  Steve Blass-is he the one who had the great series then had nothing the next year (no explanation, injury, etc)?  And Kent Tekulve was  a freak.  So tall, so skinny, so geeky & coming at you sidearm.  And the money thing.  David Parker getting pelted with batteries by (mostly racist) fans after signing the big contract.

[Tommy Shanks]

I don't know that one, but I've read Al Stump's ghostwritten autobiography (the second version which he adds his feelings about working with Cobb) a couple of times. Great baseball read.

His temper and attitude are what stuck with me. Like seriously, beating up an amputee heckler? Claiming he killed a man who tried to mug him? Viciously (and racially) attacking teammates, spiking and assulting other  players and not to mention lacing into anyone like bellhops and elevator operators who he perceived as being insulting?

Piece of work.

Of course you could chalk it up to him being made to report to Detroit when he was 18 or so, and only a couple of days after his mom shot and killed his dad. Oh, and then being brutally hazed. Oh, oh, and him being a psychopath.

And Steve Blass, you are correct: They even say guys who get the yips like him (say Chuck Knoblach, or Steve Sax not being able to throw to first base) have "Steve Blass disease".

I tell ya, I've been on this site much of today. Did you know Dennis and Tippy Martinez (NR) went a combined 25 - 19 for the '78 Orioles, who finished fourth with a pitching line-up that also include Jim Palmer (HOF) ,Scott McGregor, and Mike Flanagan? How'd that happen?

[k'in]

The Cobb book I have is the one "told" to Stump but Cobb got the final edit.  I guess the point I'm trying to make is that most people would polish their own history or revise it in their favour but presuming Cobb was doing this, the entire book portrayed Cobb  as an evil, angry, paranoid psychopath.  When he describes the beating up the fan in the stands incident he evilly chuckles about how "good he got him" and how creative he had been in the assault.

It was a nastier game back then.  If someone injured themselves crashing into a barrier, oh well.  Pitchers could use spit, oil, anything to liven up the ball.  Lots of players drank on the job, had mickeys in their pockets.  I'm thinking a modern era player (Tim Raines?)bragged about sliding headfirst into the base so he wouldn't break the cocaine vial in his pocket.  

Serious teams in the late 70s.  Wild players like Spaceman Lee and Ron LeFlore (did time for armed robbery. "said" he was 21, stole a ton of bases & later it was revealed he was 35).

That is a dangerous site...

[k'in]

Well, the Tigers are going to the playoffs. They limped in as the wild card (good thing they had built up a solid cushion earlier in the season). Their surprising play is being hailed as the turnaround of the century.  And - the scary thing is they have lots of good young arms going forward.  It will be fun even if their run is short. I tried to find an appropriate avatar from the current team but although most of them seem to have been born in the mid-80s they seem to be a boring straight edger type of crew.

So – I am going “classic” Tiger avatar for the duration of the playoff run.  I’m reaching back to the 30s-40s and settling on the interesting and most accomplished Henry Benjamin Greenberg.

Greenberg was subject to the most vicious ethnic taunting seen in the sport prior to the arrival of Jackie Robinson in 1947, yet Greenberg nevertheless became a first-rank ballplayer.

Although I gave careful consideration to the thirties era artistic second baseman Charlie Gehringer, Hank gets the nod because of this most endearing quality:

Greenberg lacked coordination as a youngster
and flat feet prevented him from running fast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Greenberg

[John_D]

I am rooting for the Tigers. They're my favourite team in the first round (my favourite team is always "whoever's playing the Yankees"). Unfortunately, I don't know about their chances... the Yankees this year might have the best lineup, 1 through 9, of all time, and the Tigers are coming at them with mostly young pitchers with no playoff experience - and with Kenny Rogers, one of the biggest chokers in pro sports.

I've got my fingers crossed, though. I will be cheering like mad for the Tigers in the first round.

[k'in]

It was a nice game this afternoon, the old "it's never over 'til it's over".  Zumaya was awesome, bringing it at 103 mph. Verlander got into a lot of trouble but he had a wicked curveball going. Todd Jones scares me but he was throwing strikes.  Tomorrow Kenny Rogers-ugh.  I don't know why they're not going with Bonderman (maybe he's out of gas) but Rogers has a brutal post season record.  Randy Johnson goes for the Yankees so it's definitely going to be a matchup of veterans.

[k'in]

Yankees Go Home! :shock:

Orange, striped kitties of the world unite!

This is way too much (unexpected) fun.  I got myself dragged out three nights this week to a sports bar :roll:   Looks like this week is going to be more of the same...

[Américain Égalitaire]

Yankees Go Home! :shock:

Orange, striped kitties of the world unite!

This is way too much (unexpected) fun.  I got myself dragged out three nights this week to a sports bar :roll:   Looks like this week is going to be more of the same...

Having been raised in Cleveland I can second the Yankee hating. Damn I hate those pinstripes.