Bread & Roses Forum

Bread => Environment => Topic started by: deBeauxOs on September 15, 2010, 02:43:13 PM

Title: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: deBeauxOs on September 15, 2010, 02:43:13 PM
Shale gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_gas) is being promoted in the province of Québec as an Eldorado that will end dependency on Alberta oil from tar sands.  I expect that it will extend to Ontario as soon as companies get their exploration licences for prospecting gas deposits in your back yard.
 
Radio-Canada has been on top of these stories for over a month.
 
Here is the latest, at CBC: Shale gas companies meet strong opposition (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/09/15/industry-holds-shale-meeting.html).
 
A documentary about the disastrous effects on artesian wells, ground water and people's health in Pennsylvia, where drilling using a process called 'fracking' (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-15/pennsylvania-families-sue-southwestern-energy-on-alleged-shale-pollution.html) has been employed, was released last June.
 
GasLand (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65G2OC20100617):
Quote
A new documentary purporting to expose the hazards of onshore natural gas drilling illustrates its point with startling images of people setting fire to water flowing from faucets in their homes.
 
"GasLand," [...] fuels the debate over shale gas and the extraction process known as hydraulic fracturing, which involves blasting millions of gallons of water, sand and diluted chemicals into shale rock, breaking it apart to free the gas.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on September 15, 2010, 02:48:24 PM
GasLand (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65G2OC20100617):
Quote
A new documentary purporting to expose the hazards of onshore natural gas drilling illustrates its point with startling images of people setting fire to water flowing from faucets in their homes.

I saw that film this summer on TMN, linked it on my FB page, and I'm sure I commented on it here at BNR although I can't remember which thread.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on September 15, 2010, 08:25:28 PM
Fracking.

Perfect.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Croghan27 on September 15, 2010, 09:56:00 PM
Shale gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_gas) is being promoted in the province of Québec as an Eldorado that will end dependency on Alberta oil from tar sands.  I expect that it will extend to Ontario as soon as companies get their exploration licences for prospecting gas deposits in your back yard.
 
snip

Maybe not an Eldorado, but in one of my gas/oil journals they list the drilling projects in North America - naturally Texas is numero uno, the, of all places, North Dakota is #2.

The ND formation also reaches into Manitoba where considerable drilling is starting. Out of (say) ten drilling sites in the world now. (Poland among others has large shale deposits) I would say that 6 are in shale oil/gas fields.

There is a broad depost of shale in the northern mid-western states and another that stretches through Ohio, east through NY state (espcecially in the NYC watershed  :o ) and up into Quebec. Frack them all .... the gas/oil/condensate is trapped inside the rock formations and by pumping HP water into them, say, at 12,000psi, the rock is FRACTURED and the hydrocarbon is set free.

I did a lot of work with a small company in Alberta named FRACKMASTER that specialized in that (it is useful in extending the life of dry producing wells) - it was later taken over by Cheney's Halliburton - who made life wretched for the workers.

Remember that for the last ten years more oil has been pumped out of the ground than has been found. Petrobas, the Brazilian oil company has just found a field off shore with 10 billion barrels (estimate) and that will bring up the numbers.

Alberta has been pumping out more oil than finding since 1972.
Title: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: deBeauxOs on September 15, 2010, 10:34:42 PM
My knowledge of what the fracking process entails is limited, Croghie but a basic principle of physics is that if a volume is deplaced or removed, that an equivalent volume will move in to occupy the space vacated.
 
What are the short and long-term effects of this geological manipulation?  Does it create huge sinkholes? - after all, the shale that has been containing the underground gas has now been fractured in the process of releasing it.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Croghan27 on September 16, 2010, 06:07:18 AM
from deBeauxOs

Quote
What are the short and long-term effects of this geological   manipulation?  Does it create huge sinkholes? - after all, the shale   that has been containing the underground gas has now been fractured in   the process of releasing it.

Fracking has long been used to extend the life of normal oil wells. The oil is not just there in big pools, even if the formations are called pools, it is trapped within small indentations and crevasse in the rock itself. What causes things like 'gushers' is that it is between two heavy and hard formations that puts pressure on the oil bearing area. The fracking water replaces the pressure from the pancaking hard rock formations.

Shale formations have long been known as oil bearing ... they are often like the Alberta Oil Sands ... often laying on the surface. The bunch of Welshmen I worked with and mentioned another context, originality came to N. America to work in an oil shale plant in the US. (The union said .. "WDF - we have members unemployed and you (the company) are bring in non-Americans for your plant???" - they were terminated and came to Syncrude. (Carter was da Pres, then.)

Shale rock is a sedimentary rock - layed down and solidified over thousands (millions) of years ... it is frequently mud and general gunk from river bottoms, but as such, often contain plants and animals and dinosaur shit that makes up the same stuff that causes conventional oil/coal/ formations. Peat is frequently used for heating/cooking fires .... I was told that peat is 'oil to be' by one geologist. Note that the NY, Marcellus shale is connected to the famous coal depots of W, Virginia.

The big problem in NY state and in the NYC watershed, is that the water used for fracking will also migrate into the local aquifers and pollute them. (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/09/14-6) New York City spends about a billion dollars a year on its' water supply and the state protects it jealously. 

(Remember IANA geologist - but have worked with people that have been involved in shale oil projects in a proletarian way, rather than having an academic perspective.)


(ps can you get ahold of me, I have something I want to ask you.)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on October 20, 2010, 05:54:12 PM
Nikiforuk about the effect of fracking on water supplies, in NE BC and elseewhere:
 
http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/10/15/FrackingDisaster/index.html (http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/10/15/FrackingDisaster/index.html)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Croghan27 on October 21, 2010, 09:28:19 AM
Nikiforuk about the effect of fracking on water supplies, in NE BC and elseewhere:
 
http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/10/15/FrackingDisaster/index.html (http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/10/15/FrackingDisaster/index.html)

BP that used to be very big in fracking in northern BC has sold it all to Apache Corporation (http://www.pennenergy.com/index/petroleum/display/6535839265/articles/pennenergy/petroleum/exploration/2010/07/apache-to_pay__7b.html).
Quote
In Western Canada, Apache is paying $3.25 billion   to purchase 1.3 million acres that include emerging unconventional   plays, such as Montney, Cadomin, Doig and coalbed methane. Operating   areas include Noel, Ojay, Chinchaga, Wapiti, Fox Creek, Edson, Marten   Hills, South West and St. Lina, as well as the Mist Mountain coal bed   methane project. The estimated proven reserves for the Canadian portion   of the acquisition equals 224 million barrels of oil equivalent, 94   percent of which is natural gas. Furthermore, during the first half of   2010, the net production from the region reached 6,529 barrels of   liquids and 240 million cubic feet of natural gas a day.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Croghan27 on October 22, 2010, 08:11:02 AM
Wassis that German word? Schadenfreude?

I know the matter is too serious to be made fun of .... but.....but ...but ..after years of seeing fair and'unbiased' panels in both the US and Canada (and probably Britain too) being stacked to ensure the desired corporation friendly result it is warming to hear that the Domestic Energy Producers Alliance is irked that too many of them thar flakey environmental type have been installed on a peer-review panel that will look closely at a United States   Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) study of the drilling practice. (http://www.worldoil.com/DEPA_questions_bias_of_fracking_study_panel_candidates.html)
Quote
Proposed panelists in question include: a zoologist and pharmacist whose   group has attempted to document the damage that hydraulic fracturing   can do to water and human health; a Cornell University professor, who   authored a widely panned (and much protested) “study” on fracturing’s   climate-change impact; an author and breast cancer expert, who explores   links between human rights and the environment; a Colorado School of   Public Health adjunct professor, who was featured in the film Split   Estate; a geochemist from Stratus Consulting geochemist and former   Environmental Defense Fund director; a director for the Center for   Global Safe Water at Emory University; a University of Wyoming geologist   and author of Garfield Company’s “study” pinning hydraulic fracturing   on groundwater contamination; a University of Massachusetts Lowell   public health professor and leading proponent of “precautionary   principle”; and a Boston University epidemiologist and member of the   Toxics Use Reduction Institute science Advisory Board.

Tee Hee Hee ..... Tee Hee Hee .....  :)) ahem ...  :confused
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on February 27, 2011, 01:48:59 AM
More about serious problems with fracking:
 
Quote
An incredible piece just broke in the New York Times showing that hydraulic fracking in the Marcellus Shale is drawing huge amounts of radioactivity up from the earth with the fracking fluids, often going straight through a municipal waste water treatment plant and then dumped into rivers -- above public drinking water intake locations.  The piece proves that EPA knows this is going on, and that it is likely illegal...

http://www.desmogblog.com/must-read-ny-times-story-gas-fracking-reveals-radioactive-wastewater-threat (http://www.desmogblog.com/must-read-ny-times-story-gas-fracking-reveals-radioactive-wastewater-threat)
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/us/27gas.html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/us/27gas.html?_r=1)
 
another BnR thread about fracking:
 
http://breadnroses.ca/community/index.php/topic,5105.msg187085.html#msg187085 (http://breadnroses.ca/community/index.php/topic,5105.msg187085.html#msg187085)
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Croghan27 on February 27, 2011, 10:41:40 AM
Most of the articles I get in my Oil&Gas Journals are about the discovery and drilling phase of hydrocarbon production, something I have not been concerned with - the tar sands formation if generally there for all to see.
 
Yet in N. America and a few other places (Australia and Poland, no less) shale fracking is now the major method of recovery. (The liquids are usually in the form of condensed gases as natural gas is what is trapped in the formations.) An indication of the extent of the fracking is that the Dakotas in the US have more activity then all other states with the exception of Texas.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on March 15, 2011, 12:17:51 PM
The Tyee about fracking using up water in BC:
 
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/03/15/OurWaterSuckedAway/ (http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/03/15/OurWaterSuckedAway/)
 
DeSmogBlog posts about fracking, including recent news about Quebec allowing drilling but not fracking at present:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/directory/vocabulary/5133 (http://www.desmogblog.com/directory/vocabulary/5133)
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on April 16, 2011, 05:53:13 PM
DesmogBlog has several articles about fracking, including this recent one about New Brunswick:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/new-brunswick-canada-s-next-shale-gas-fracking-battle-front (http://www.desmogblog.com/new-brunswick-canada-s-next-shale-gas-fracking-battle-front)
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/directory/vocabulary/5133 (http://www.desmogblog.com/directory/vocabulary/5133)
 
RealClimate discusses the emissions caused by fracking and the need for better measurement:
 
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/04/fracking-methane/ (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/04/fracking-methane/)
 
Note that shale gas is mostly methane, and methane is a greenhouse gas.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on April 17, 2011, 08:44:00 PM
Between natural gas, crude, this and I don't know what else, I am now convinced we are creating earthquakes.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on April 20, 2011, 01:08:44 PM
Fracking contaminates drinking water in Pennsylvania:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/gas-industry-admits-water-contamination-pennsylvania-drillers-told-stop-fracking-wastewater-delivery-potws (http://www.desmogblog.com/gas-industry-admits-water-contamination-pennsylvania-drillers-told-stop-fracking-wastewater-delivery-potws)
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on April 20, 2011, 02:09:27 PM
Nikiforuk on the chemicals used in fracking that the Canadian government won't tell us about:
 
Quote
In one blunt 30-page report (http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Hydraulic%20Fracturing%20Report%204.18.11.pdf) the U.S. Congress has now spilled the beans on an extreme Canadian energy sport.
 
Believe it or not, the U.S. Committee On Energy and Commerce disclosed what our very own energy regulators won't: it listed the contents of hydraulic fracking fluids for shale gas and oil production...

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/04/20/FrackingToxins/ (http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/04/20/FrackingToxins/)
 
 
ETA: a fracked well in Pennsylvania has blown out and spilled fluid, on the anniversary of the BP spill.
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/breaking-pennsylvania-fracking-spill-haunting-reminder-bp-anniversary (http://www.desmogblog.com/breaking-pennsylvania-fracking-spill-haunting-reminder-bp-anniversary)
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Croghan27 on April 20, 2011, 02:32:26 PM
I take a WHIMS course (again) tomorrow and shall ask about this ... but the act states:
 
Quote

 theHazardous Materials Information Review Act, paragraph 13(a) of theHPA sets out what ingredients are subject to disclosure on theMSDS and section 4 of theCPR specifies the concentration above which those ingredients must be disclosed.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on April 21, 2011, 01:59:10 PM
Fracking blowout in Pennsylvania not under control yet:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/chesapeake-energy-suspends-all-fracking-pennsylvania-after-blowout-eve-bp-anniversary (http://www.desmogblog.com/chesapeake-energy-suspends-all-fracking-pennsylvania-after-blowout-eve-bp-anniversary)
 
Bogus report by European fracking lobby group:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/european-fracking-lobby-group-caught-peddling-bogus-report (http://www.desmogblog.com/european-fracking-lobby-group-caught-peddling-bogus-report)
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on May 06, 2011, 05:38:43 PM
Lawsuit over fracking by a lawyer living in Rosebud, Alberta
 
Quote
...But during the boom things changed. The region's geological formations got blasted so many times by highly pressurized injections of nitrogen, water, sand and toxic chemicals that methane started to seep up all over the place. Even Ernst's dogs stopped drinking the water. Today the landowner can now set her tap water on fire. In fact, she now trucks in fresh water to avoid inconvenient kitchen explosions while making dinner. Nor is she alone... 

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/04/28/FrackingSuit/ (http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/04/28/FrackingSuit/)
 
 
Website about the lawsuit:
 
http://www.ernstversusencana.ca/ (http://www.ernstversusencana.ca/)
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on May 08, 2011, 08:46:53 PM
The Shale Gas Revolution in 12 Slides (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-shale-revolution-in-12-slides-2011-5#) which leads to ...

The Shale Gas Shock: Report from the Global Warming Policy Foundation (http://www.thegwpf.org/images/stories/gwpf-reports/Shale-Gas_4_May_11.pdf)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on May 09, 2011, 12:26:34 PM
The Shale Gas Revolution in 12 Slides (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-shale-revolution-in-12-slides-2011-5#) which leads to ...

The Shale Gas Shock: Report from the Global Warming Policy Foundation (http://www.thegwpf.org/images/stories/gwpf-reports/Shale-Gas_4_May_11.pdf)
The Global Warming Policy Foundation has several well-known AGW deniers involved (or some at best admit it is warming but do not want to actually do anything about it) including Peiser, Lawson and several people on its Advisory Board such as Dyson, Lindzen, McKitrick, Plimer and Tol; so I would be very hesitant to trust anything they say.  Quite a group of rogues; probably others there are deniers, I just don't recall the names; I think Carter is at least.
 
The thing is, I would not trust what they present as science, or economics, for that matter.
 
ETA: Letter someone linked to in comments at Deltoid; it says that fracking produces at least 20% more GHG.
 
http://www.eeb.cornell.edu/howarth/Howarth%20et%20al%20%202011.pdf (http://www.eeb.cornell.edu/howarth/Howarth%20et%20al%20%202011.pdf)
 
DesmogBlog continues to post often about fracking, and has produced its own report, "Fracking the Future" calling for a moratorium on fracking because of the danger to drinking water, air and climate.:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/fracking-future-how-unconventional-gas-threatens-our-water-health-and-climate-report (http://www.desmogblog.com/fracking-future-how-unconventional-gas-threatens-our-water-health-and-climate-report)
 
http://desmogblog.com/fracking-the-future/ (http://desmogblog.com/fracking-the-future/)
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on May 09, 2011, 02:01:10 PM
Sourcewatch about the Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF) including links about many of its board and council members:
 
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation)
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Croghan27 on May 09, 2011, 03:20:30 PM
Sourcewatch about the Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF) including links about many of its board and council members:
 
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation)

Holly, if you go to the NBC site and watch any of their commentators  (like Maddow) you will see that between each segment an avuncular geologist (from Exxon/Mobil) singing the phrases of shale gas. "All this time it was right under our feet."
 
Like discovering a winning lotto ticket in the pocket of an old coat.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on May 09, 2011, 03:35:54 PM
...Holly, if you go to the NBC site and watch any of their commentators  (like Maddow) you will see that between each segment an avuncular geologist (from Exxon/Mobil) singing the phrases of shale gas. "All this time it was right under our feet."
 
Like discovering a winning lotto ticket in the pocket of an old coat.
... covered with anthrax powder.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on May 09, 2011, 08:05:20 PM
And here I thought I scooped Holly Stick on something energy-related. I shoulda known!  :))
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on May 09, 2011, 09:20:18 PM
Well, the group's name didn't ring a bell, there are so many, but when I started going down the list of names, it was ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! ding!
 
I've spent a lot of time reading http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/ (http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/) an Australian blog that debunks many climate denialist claims and links to various other blogs which are also good at doing that. It is a world wide community. I post at them occasionally, but mainly just learn from them.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on May 10, 2011, 06:14:41 PM
Peer-reviewed study shows that fracking does indeed produce flammable drinking water:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/scientists-confirm-fracking-link-flammable-drinking-water (http://www.desmogblog.com/scientists-confirm-fracking-link-flammable-drinking-water)
 
Methane in the water may or may not be harmful to human health, but having it blow up your home sure would be.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on May 10, 2011, 07:25:26 PM
Ouzo is what Greeks call flammable drinking water.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on May 18, 2011, 08:10:21 PM
Nikiforuk: report says the benefits of shale gas are overblown:
 
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/05/16/ShaleGale/ (http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/05/16/ShaleGale/)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on May 24, 2011, 10:52:42 AM
Good post about fracking, with lots of links and a song "My Water's on Fire Tonight":
 
http://350orbust.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/why-all-the-fracking-fuss/ (http://350orbust.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/why-all-the-fracking-fuss/)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on June 01, 2011, 06:44:56 PM
Fracking may be causing some small earthquakes:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/fracking-uk-causing-earthquakes (http://www.desmogblog.com/fracking-uk-causing-earthquakes)
 
US government is being sued over granting fracking permits without doing enough studying of possible effects:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/new-york-attorney-general-sues-over-lack-fracking-studies (http://www.desmogblog.com/new-york-attorney-general-sues-over-lack-fracking-studies)
 
People are calling on BC government to investigate fracking:
 
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/06/01/FrackingInvestigation/ (http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/06/01/FrackingInvestigation/)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on June 10, 2011, 05:27:20 PM
Fracking has been going on in BC without much review of the effects:
 
Quote
...Set to break its own records for the largest fracking operations in history, Parfitt suggests that unconventional gas fracking in BC may already be posing an environmental threat equivalent to the Alberta tar sands...

http://www.desmogblog.com/gas-fracking-war-british-columbia-s-wildlands (http://www.desmogblog.com/gas-fracking-war-british-columbia-s-wildlands)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on June 10, 2011, 06:37:50 PM
I have been talking to a lot of enviro experts recently. More today.  8) :whistle

Anyway, somebody suggested to me that, not only do fracking and earthquakes seem related, but also the earth's rotation and fracking (and other forms of resource extraction like oil drilling.) I dunno. But ya start messing with the design, something is gonna get knocked around -- and all that could be contributing to climate change.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on June 27, 2011, 04:45:05 PM
Shale gas may not be as cheap and easy as the industry claims:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/us/26gas.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/us/26gas.html)
 
Documents the NYT has recieved about shale gas:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/natural-gas-drilling-down-documents-4-intro.html (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/natural-gas-drilling-down-documents-4-intro.html)
 
 
ETA: oil companies in general are also overblown (Hat tip Robert McLelland):
 
http://www.globeadvisor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/gam/20110624/ROBMAG_JULY_AUG2011_P22 (http://www.globeadvisor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/gam/20110624/ROBMAG_JULY_AUG2011_P22)__
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on July 09, 2011, 12:56:05 PM
Nikiforuk: Shale gas may be dirtier than coal:
 
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/07/07/ShaleEmissions/ (http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/07/07/ShaleEmissions/)
 
ETA: It's also called "unconventional gas", I guess:
 
http://www.desmogblog.com/pan-european-approach-banning-unconventional-gas (http://www.desmogblog.com/pan-european-approach-banning-unconventional-gas)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Croghan27 on July 09, 2011, 02:03:23 PM
Fracking has been a common practice for years ... it is a good way to entend the life of an oil field. It unlocks some of the hydrocarbon that is contained in the rock.
 
It is the increase in the amount of fracking that is without parallel. Despite the garbage in the EXXON commercials, everyone always knew the hydrocarbon was there - they just did not bother to go after it.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on July 14, 2011, 03:27:46 PM
Pembina and Suzuki:
 
Quote
...While switching from coal and oil to natural gas would cut greenhouse gas emissions in the short term, it wouldn't be enough to meet the G8 target of cutting emissions by 80 per cent by 2050, says the report by the David Suzuki Foundation and Pembina Institute.
   
And extracting natural gas - especially controversial shale gas - will likely have other environmental impacts such as water contamination, increased air pollution and increased water consumption, the report says. Canada is the third-largest producer of natural gas in the world...
 
http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Embrace+renewable+energy+Suzuki/5099687/story.html (http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Embrace+renewable+energy+Suzuki/5099687/story.html)
 
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on July 14, 2011, 05:55:52 PM
And most of it comes from Harper, Kenney and Baird.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on August 19, 2011, 02:03:59 PM
Alberta Government - industry collusion over shale gas, and an agreement bewtween Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC:
 
Quote
...Under the New West Partnership, Canada's three major hydrocarbon-producing provinces agreed to collaborate on industry water use and hydraulic fracture technology in Dec. 2010.
 
The secret agreement, which is not on the partnership's website (http://www.newwestpartnershiptrade.ca/index.asp), admits that hydraulic fracturing fluids "can include water, hydrocarbons, gels or inert-gas-based foams." To date none of the three provinces have disclosed what toxic compounds are actually being used in fracking fluids...

http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/08/19/Government-Industry-Collude-on-Shale-Gas/ (http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/08/19/Government-Industry-Collude-on-Shale-Gas/)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on August 27, 2011, 04:55:18 PM
A friend on FB posted this today:
 
About those flood warnings for the East Coast, NYC, and New York state? To those who think they can take a Sharpie and draw a line on the map to keep toxic and radioactive frack water in one place. To all who can't wait for a full environmental impact study. Yes, you. Ever thought about where flood water goes? No? Guess what, we're about to experience it. Everywhere. That's where it goes. And if the water has frack chemicals in it, guess where it will go? Everywhere.  :o
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on August 28, 2011, 01:39:55 AM
Smart friend.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on September 11, 2011, 11:09:18 PM
Members of the Kainai Blood Tribe are angry that half of their land was leased out for fracking by the chief and council. About a dozen blockaded a road and three women were arrested. The Blood Reserve is the largest in Canada as far as I know.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2011/09/11/alberta-blood-reserve-fracking-protest.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2011/09/11/alberta-blood-reserve-fracking-protest.html)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on September 12, 2011, 12:03:36 AM
I read - probably in an oil industry magazine - that oil companies doing fracking are trying to win over aboriginal communities by offering them a share in the company - I'll post it when I find it.
 
 
ETA: An earlier story from the same community:
 
Blood Tribe Members Call for Moratorium on Hydro Fracking (http://www.groundreport.com/Health_and_Science/Blood-Tribe-Members-Call-for-Moratorium-on-Hydro-F/2936596) (March 14, 2011)
 
excerpt:

A growing number of Blood Tribe Members in southern Alberta are calling for a moratorium on the controversial process known as hydro fracking.

In late 2010, Kainaiwa Resources Inc. (KRI), a company solely owned by the Blood Tribe, quietly signed off on a deal with the Calgary-based junior mining company Bowood Energy and the U.S. company Murphy Oil.

"The deal netted the Blood Tribe at least $50 Million and potentially more revenue in the future," says Protect Blood Land (http://protectbloodland.ca/), a new grassroots effort led by concerned tribal members, including the Blood/Sámi student and activist, Maija Tailfeathers.

However, Protect Blood Land says that no one from the reserve was consulted before the deal was finalized. "KRI and the Blood Tribe Chief and Council neglected to maintain any degree of transparency during and after the negotiations--ultimately, leaving a large population of tribe members completely unaware of the situation until after the deal was made," says Protect Blood Land.


Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on September 12, 2011, 12:43:19 AM
From an American blog, not sure this applies to Canada:
 
Hard Sell, Patriotism & Deception in the Gas-Fracking Industry (http://fathertheo.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/hard-sell-patriotism-deception-in-the-gas-fracking-industry/)
 
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on September 12, 2011, 09:19:36 AM
I'm still looking for the exact quote, but in the meantime here is perspective from the Canadian Oil and Gas  Industry magazine Ocean Resources which is given free to all passengers on Air Labrador flights:
 
Fracking Debate Heats Up (http://www.ocean-resources.com/articles.asp?articleid=686)
 
excerpt:
 
But as the movement to ban fracking gains more momentum, industry experts are saying that the practice has been unfairly labeled, and it is now taking the blame for environmental problems that may have occurred for other reasons.

excerpt:
 
Guy spends much of his time these days responding to misinformation about fracking and the gas industry in general. Lately CAPP has begun running a series of highly produced television commercials promoting the benefits of a well-managed onshore petroleum industry in Canada, as well as hosting a series of public forums and open houses in petroleum areas around the country. Guy says most of the opposition to fracking is founded on misinformation, and he reiterates Huskins’ argument that the activity takes place at a depth that is far removed from ground water. “Typically fracturing activity is taking place 2,000 to 3,000 meters below the surface,” he says. “The deepest potable water anywhere is found at around 400 meters. In fact 300 meters is an extremely deep water well. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that fracks taking place at the 2,000 meter depth are having any effect on water wells.” He points to the fact that more than a million fracks have taken place on the North American continent since the practice began in 1949, with 167,000 of them taking place in Alberta. “The fact is, even with all that activity there is not a single known incidence of a well contamination as a result of a frack,” he says.

excerpt:
 
Larry Huskins remains quietly optimistic that his industry will prevail in the battle for public hearts and minds. Like Forent, CAPP and other players, Corridor Resources has been hosting open houses and stakeholder meetings in areas around New Brunswick’s McCully Gas Field. He says that while the oil and gas industry has made some mistakes in the past, the scientific evidence is strongly there to support hydraulic fracturing as a safe and environmentally benign process. “At the end of the day the public will become educated enough about the real truths to make their own decisions,” he says.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on September 13, 2011, 07:02:04 PM
Good links, Boom Boom. I love that oil industry appeal to the scientific evidence; yeah, sure.
 
Here's a media alert about that Kainai Blood fracking blockade:
 
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/krystalline-kraus/2011/09/activist-communiqu%C3%A9-media-alert-indigenous-women-blockade-m (http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/krystalline-kraus/2011/09/activist-communiqu%C3%A9-media-alert-indigenous-women-blockade-m)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on September 15, 2011, 02:09:14 PM
Murdoch, Cheney and other bottom feeders are investing in extracting shale gas in Israel and the US:
 
http://www.fastcompany.com/1704559/rupert-murdoch-dick-cheney-Genie-energy (http://www.fastcompany.com/1704559/rupert-murdoch-dick-cheney-Genie-energy)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on September 18, 2011, 10:14:56 AM
I've noticed that the oil industry are running ads on CNN, CBC, and maybe CTV, pooh-poohing the dangers of fracking. Smiling oil company shills are saying "trust us".  :annoyed 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Antonia on September 18, 2011, 05:52:33 PM
Right in my own newspaper, full page colour ad (for months now) by the Cndn Ass for Petroleum  Producers touting how green the tarsands are.  :crying
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on September 29, 2011, 05:39:49 PM
Earthquakes could be linked to B.C. gas drilling (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/09/28/bc-fracking-gas-earthquakes.html#.ToTUV2NXFdw.facebook)
 
excerpt:
 
The coincidence of earthquakes and gas exploration warrants further investigation, said University of Calgary seismologist David Eaton.
 
“This would fall within the descriptor of a seismic swarm,” Eaton told CBC News. “I think, you know, any links to hydrocarbon extraction of fluid injection would be really interesting.”  :popcorn
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Toedancer on September 29, 2011, 08:08:47 PM
I remember reading a book when I lived in Van. (in the 70's) and that was a theory discussed then. Cannot remember the author.


Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on September 29, 2011, 08:32:20 PM
I remember reading a book when I lived in Van. (in the 70's) and that was a theory discussed then. Cannot remember the author.

Google "seismic swarm" and "fracking and seismic activity" and  see how many hits you get. Scary.  :o
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on September 29, 2011, 08:35:55 PM
From 2009: Earthquake Swarm Off the Coast of British Columbia, Canada (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/canada/eq_swarm_2008.php)
 
Can't imagine why they allow fracking in such a sensitive earthquake region
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on October 08, 2011, 05:36:32 PM
Kitimat LNG project (liquified natural gas) seems to be supported by most people says this article:
 
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/kitmat-bc-ground-zero-in-the-race-to-fuel-asia/article2195213/?service=mobile (http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/kitmat-bc-ground-zero-in-the-race-to-fuel-asia/article2195213/?service=mobile)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on October 24, 2011, 07:40:41 PM
Concerns about effects of fracking from an Envi Canada memo to Peter Kent; especially the use of lots of water, and contamination of land and water by various chemicals used in the process:


http://www.canada.com/technology/Water+consumption+contamination+list+shale+concerns+Memo/5599122/story.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.canada.com/technology/Water+consumption+contamination+list+shale+concerns+Memo/5599122/story.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on November 10, 2011, 10:48:34 PM
Nikiforuk says we are exporting too much natural gas now and will have to import it by 2035:


http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/11/10/Gas-Exports-Threaten-Security/ (http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/11/10/Gas-Exports-Threaten-Security/)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on November 12, 2011, 03:17:45 PM
Fracking chemical found in aquifer in Wyoming:


http://www.propublica.org/article/epa-finds-fracking-compound-in-wyoming-aquifer (http://www.propublica.org/article/epa-finds-fracking-compound-in-wyoming-aquifer)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on November 19, 2011, 07:45:01 PM
Fracking causes earthquakes: http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/11/18/Fracking-And-Quaking/ (http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/11/18/Fracking-And-Quaking/)


I have seen arguments elsewhere that it only ever causes little ones, but I wonder how sure they can be of that?
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on November 30, 2011, 11:54:59 AM
About CAPP lobbying Alberta government over shale gas - documents contradict the lobbyist registrar's finding that they were in compliance:


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2011/11/29/edmonton-lobbying-compalint-dismissed.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2011/11/29/edmonton-lobbying-compalint-dismissed.html)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on December 28, 2011, 04:16:43 PM
Good article by an American publication about fracking in Canada:

http://www.propublica.org/article/oh-canadas-become-a-home-for-record-fracking (http://www.propublica.org/article/oh-canadas-become-a-home-for-record-fracking)

Memo to Minister of the Environment about fracking, March 8, 2011 and attached documents:

http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/279805-environment-canada-shale-gas-memo (http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/279805-environment-canada-shale-gas-memo)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Toedancer on December 29, 2011, 09:28:51 AM
I don't see much opposition to it coming from anywhere.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on December 30, 2011, 01:05:25 PM
Fracking on the Blood Reserve; protestors in court: 

Quote
...Jim Gladstone is one of two Blood Tribe councillors who do not support the five-year lease agreement. He didn’t sign it. He says while he is not against oil exploration, he wants it regulated.

Gladstone also said that the agreement fails to put in place any monitoring or studies into what effects fracking will have on his community...

http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2011/12/23/peaceful-protestors-charged-with-intimidation/ (http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2011/12/23/peaceful-protestors-charged-with-intimidation/)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: sparqui on December 30, 2011, 03:58:08 PM
From the article:

Quote
...In 2010, the Blood Tribe chief and council signed a five-year lease agreement with two oil and gas companies, Murphy Oil and Bowood Energy, giving them drilling rights to roughly half of the community’s land base....

Remember this:

Cheif Weasel Head gives Chief Speaker a name and an eagle feather

Here is the whole embarrassing event in technicolour:

[url=http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/capolitics-22424923/raw-video-pm-dons-headdress-dances-25915134.html]Chief Speaker Harper in head dress (http://fnbc.info/pm-named-honorary-chief-first-nations-blood-tribe-alberta)

Amazing how the useless media failed to report the backlash on that very reserve over this fracking deal:

In addition to the the risks and limited benefits, Blood members are also concerned about the actual agreement and the conditions under which it was signed. According to Protect Blood Land, no one from the reserve was consulted before it was finalized. As well, "KRI and the Blood Tribe Chief and Council neglected to maintain any degree of transparency during and after the negotiations--ultimately, leaving a large population of tribe members completely unaware of the situation until after the deal was made," says Protect Blood Land.[/b] (http://intercontinentalcry.org/blood-tribe-members-call-for-moratorium-on-hydro-fracking/[b)

At the time, I remember remarking that this PMO staged event was only possible with a gas and oil compliant First Nation.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Holly Stick on December 30, 2011, 11:52:46 PM
That Kainai Chieftainship thing is something they have been doing for many years, inducting politicians, royalty, the pope, and various less celebrated people. I haven't read Hugh Dempsey's book about it, but here is a book review.  http://iportal.usask.ca/docs/Prairie%20Forum/Tribal%20Honours%20(v23no1_1998_pg127-128).pdf (http://iportal.usask.ca/docs/Prairie%20Forum/Tribal%20Honours%20(v23no1_1998_pg127-128).pdf)

So inducting Harper is not necessarily connected to the oil and gas.


There has been a lot of oil and gas development on some Alberta reserves for decades and a section of Indian Affairs regulates it. I wonder if they have just treated fracking leases like regular oil and gas leases, without considering possible environmental effects specific to fracking.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on January 16, 2012, 07:45:18 PM
Natural Gas Industry Pumps $1.34 Million To New York Politicians To Push Fracking (http://thinkprogress.org/green/2012/01/12/402535/natural-gas-industry-pumps-134-million-to-new-york-politicians-to-push-fracking/)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on January 18, 2012, 01:13:15 PM
Not sure what to make of this article: Situation normal, all fracked up: Obama embraces fracking  (http://grist.org/natural-gas/situation-normal-all-fracked-up-obama-embraces-fracking/)
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on April 05, 2012, 03:06:36 PM
USGS: Recent Earthquakes 'Almost Certainly Manmade' (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/05)
 
Report implicates oil and natural gas drilling, aka fracking
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on April 22, 2012, 12:57:47 PM
Vermont Senate bans fracking: One state down, 49 to go (http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11982120-vermont-bans-fracking-one-state-down-49-to-go)   :applause
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on November 17, 2012, 12:08:26 PM
Ottawa faces $250-million suit over Quebec environmental stance (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1288637--ottawa-faces-250-million-suit-over-quebec-environmental-stance)
 
Quebec has abundant shale gas formations but the provincial government has declared a moratorium on fracking while it studies the environmental impact of the technology, which some say consumes unacceptable volumes of water and may be contaminating groundwater. Quebec also passed legislation in June banning drilling below the St. Lawrence River.

Lone Pine contends it deserves $250 million in compensation by Ottawa for the Quebec government’s expropriation of its drilling permit, which it says violates Canada’s obligations to treat foreign investors from other NAFTA countries fairly.

Critics of NAFTA’s Chapter 11 provisions say the threatened suit by Lone Pine drives home the risks of bilateral investor protection treaties, which they say are being increasingly used by private companies to challenge government regulations in Canada and elsewhere.

Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on May 21, 2013, 10:24:12 AM
 Quebec tables bill to limit fracking (http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Quebec+tables+bill+limit+fracking/8393551/story.html)
 
excerpt:
 
Although fracking is carried out by companies in the Gaspé and on Anticosti Island, Blanchet said the decision to limit the moratorium to the St. Lawrence lowland came because of opposition by residents to the exploration process.

 
Question: why the limitation - why not include the entire province? And what is meant by  "the St. Lawrence lowland" - what are the boundaries of that area?  :confused

 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: lagatta on May 21, 2013, 11:13:35 AM
Well, no doubt pressure from energy companies that want to exploit the resources of Eastern Québec...

I think it refers to the flood plain; what was originally covered by the river, but I don't see how that can exclude the Gaspé peninsula, except mountainous areas in the interior. It is not very well explained.

Environmentalists call for a moratorium everywhere. It is ridiculous, given the amount of hydroelectric power we produce.
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on May 21, 2013, 12:03:28 PM
The plastics industry - which depends on oil and gas to survive - isn't happy:
 
http://www.canplastics.com/news/quebecs-minority-goverment-tables-moratorium-bill-on-shale-gas-fracking/1002333752/qvwl78qW6yv14qsvqq4sMw4q/?ref=enews_CP&utm_source=CP&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CP-EN05212013 (http://www.canplastics.com/news/quebecs-minority-goverment-tables-moratorium-bill-on-shale-gas-fracking/1002333752/qvwl78qW6yv14qsvqq4sMw4q/?ref=enews_CP&utm_source=CP&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CP-EN05212013)
 
excerpt:
 
From the plastics perspective, the legislation strikes at the heart of a technology that supporters of fracking say will increase natural gas supplies, lower gas prices, and transform North American producers of resins such as polyethylene, which are favored by lighter natural gas-based feedstocks, into some of the most cost-competitive producers in the world.
 
 
Title: Re: Shale gas - Québec and elsewhere.
Post by: Boom Boom on October 16, 2013, 11:28:12 AM
France’s Ban On Fracking Is ‘Absolute’
 (http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/11/2773071/france-frack-ban/)
excerpts:
 
- France’s ban on fracking was finally completed Friday, as its constitutional court upheld a 2011 law (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/11/france-fracking-ban-shale-gas?CMP=twt_fd) prohibiting the practice and canceling all exploration permits. The decision posted on the court’s website (http://www.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/conseil-constitutionnel/francais/les-decisions/acces-par-type/les-decisions-qpc.48300.html) said the ban “conforms to the constitution” and is not “disproportionate,” effectively protecting it from any future legal challenge.
 
- And that’s not just talk. France has ambitious goals for a low-carbon future and is currently considering a tax on carbon emissions (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-21/france-to-tax-edf-nuclear-output-for-energy-shift-to-renewables.html) and a nuclear tax (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-20/france-plans-carbon-tax-atomic-cap-in-27-billion-energy-shift.html). Revenue would go to renewables and energy efficiency standards. France plans to cut fossil fuel use by 30 percent by 2030, at the same time that it de-emphasizes the nuclear power that provides three quarters of the nation’s energy.

“It’s a judicial victory but also an environmental and political victory,” Martin said. “With this decision the ban on hydraulic fracturing is absolute.”
 
Will Quebec follow suit?   :confused