Bread & Roses Forum

The Globe => North Africa and the Middle East => Topic started by: skdadl on June 28, 2007, 07:05:29 AM

Title: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: skdadl on June 28, 2007, 07:05:29 AM
Naomi Klein in the Nation (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070702/klein):

Quote
Here's another theory: Israel's economy isn't booming despite the political chaos that devours the headlines but because of it. This phase of development dates back to the mid-'90s, when Israel was in the vanguard of the information revolution--the most tech-dependent economy in the world. After the dot-com bubble burst in 2000, Israel's economy was devastated, facing its worst year since 1953. Then came 9/11, and suddenly new profit vistas opened up for any company that claimed it could spot terrorists in crowds, seal borders from attack and extract confessions from closed-mouthed prisoners.

Within three years, large parts of Israel's tech economy had been radically repurposed. Put in Friedmanesque terms: Israel went from inventing the networking tools of the "flat world" to selling fences to an apartheid planet. Many of the country's most successful entrepreneurs are using Israel's status as a fortressed state, surrounded by furious enemies, as a kind of twenty-four-hour-a-day showroom--a living example of how to enjoy relative safety amid constant war. And the reason Israel is now enjoying supergrowth is that those companies are busily exporting that model to the world.


What can you say? It's true; it's disgusting; and there's bloody nothing we can do about it.
Title: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: GDKitty on June 28, 2007, 08:26:33 AM
That one's going in the bookmarks, skdadl.   :rant: And there he is again...Thomas F'n Friedman  :rant:

Can't wait for Klein's book to come out. I think she's been very astute to follow the thread of 'disaster capitalism,' running through these last few years. I know it's a tale as old as 'munnee' but man, it is literally blowing up in all of our faces lately. :(
Title: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Holly Stick on June 28, 2007, 05:46:04 PM
I wonder if she writes about New Orleans in her book.  The phrase "Disaster Capitalism" made me think of this article:

Quote
How to Destroy an African-American City in Thirty Three Steps – Lessons from Katrina
by Bill Quigley

Step One. Delay. If there is one word that sums up the way to destroy an African-American city after a disaster, that word is DELAY. If you are in doubt about any of the following steps – just remember to delay and you will probably be doing the right thing...

...Step Seven. Make certain that the media focus of the disaster is not on the heroic community work of thousands of women, men and young people helping the elderly, the sick and the trapped survive, but mainly on acts of people looting. Also spread and repeat the rumors that people trapped on rooftops are shooting guns not to attract attention and get help, but AT the helicopters. This will reinforce the message that “those people” left behind are different from the rest of us and are beyond help...

...Step Thirty. Get the elected officials out of the way and make room for corporations to make a profit. There are billions to be made in this process for well-connected national and international corporations. There is so much chaos that no one will be able to figure out exactly where the money went for a long time. There is no real attempt to make sure that local businesses, especially African-American businesses, get contracts – at best they get modest subcontracts from the corporations which got the big money. Make sure the authorities prosecute a couple of little people who ripped off $2000 – that will temporarily satisfy people who know they are being ripped off and divert attention from the big money rip-offs. This will also provide another opportunity to blame the victims – as critics can say “Well, we gave them lots of money, they must have wasted it, how much more can they expect from us?”...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/28/2154/
Title: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: GDKitty on June 28, 2007, 05:53:53 PM
Quote from: Holly Stick
I wonder if she writes about New Orleans in her book.  The phrase "Disaster Capitalism" made me think of this article:


I think she will, Holly Stick. This is Klein's post-Katrina article on NOLA:
Let the People Rebuild New Orleans (http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20050926&s=klein) (Sept 26, 2005, The Nation Magazine)

Thanks for the Common Dreams link!  I'll read it tonight :)
Title: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Toedancer on June 30, 2007, 09:58:49 AM
So Bushie is at his dad's house in Maine, talking with Putin about a whole host of things. To repair the deep fractures, as far as that can go. They also discussed Iran.

Bush has only 18 or so ? months left and he wants Iran blasted. Iran is in chaos right now and would be a good time to strike. Except U.S. military is pretty thin right now. I remember reading just in the last day or two (somewhere on the net) that Israel should really be the one to start with the attacks.

Quote
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) has been training on long-range flights, including refueling in mid-flight, in preparation for potential strikes against Iranian nuclear targets.

The training program has been taking place for some time but has only been released for publication Friday, the Ma'ariv daily reported.

Intelligence assessments received by the defense establishment concur that once Iran passes the point of no return in its nuclear efforts, the entire Middle East will enter a frantic nuclear armament race. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are expected to take the lead should such a scenario become reality.

At the end of 2007 the US and Israel are expected to hold a joint assessment to ascertain the influence of economic sanctions against Iran.

A new package of upgraded sanctions prepared jointly by Israel and the US, includes exerting pressure on European governments to cancel US $22 billion in loan guarantees given annually to European companies trading with Iran.


JPost (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1182409614270&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull)

The article suggests the attack won't happen til near the end of '07; so then why are they practising now?
Title: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: lagatta on June 30, 2007, 10:14:24 AM
I'm really disappointed to learn that Thomas Mulcair former (very dissident) Liberal environment minister here and now NDP candidate in Outremont, is a frigging Zionist.

Quote
There is one peculiar challenge, though: Outremont is home to one of the largest Jewish communities in the country. Last fall, the Israeli ambassador accused the NDP of “aligning itself with terrorists” after the party adopted a motion at a convention in Quebec City that described Israel's military campaign on Hezbollah targets in Lebanon as “drastically disproportionate.”

On this issue, Mr. Mulcair distances himself from his new party. Over the course of a two-hour interview in Outremont, it is the only subject with which he struggles.

“My wife's family, like a lot of European Jews, suffered a lot during the war,” he said, offering further details but requesting discretion. “My strong support for Israel shouldn't be interpreted as meaning that I don't realize there are huge problems.”
Mulcair stands in Outremont for NDP (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070630.quebec30/BNStory/National/)
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: deBeauxOs on July 02, 2008, 11:55:15 AM
Instead of starting a new thread, I'm posting this (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0243020020080702) here.
Quote
A Palestinian construction worker rammed a bulldozer into buses and cars on one of west Jerusalem's busiest streets on Wednesday, killing three Israelis and wounding more than 40 before he was shot dead. .... There was no immediate claim of responsibility from militant groups. Relatives and police named the attacker as 30-year-old Hosam Dwayyat, a construction worker from Arab East Jerusalem. Police were trying to establish whether he had acted alone.
[/i]Some of the news-gathering organizations are calling it a terrorist act.  Which raises the omnipresent philosophical question: If a single, lone individual commits violence against those he considers his brutalizers, is it an act of terror?

eta: I'm not condoning nor justifying what he did.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Toedancer on July 03, 2008, 01:27:22 PM
Yes interesting question.

According to the Oxford's dictionary's definition:

terrorist

• noun a person who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

The Encyclopedia Britannica gives a slightly more precise definition:

the systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Terrorism has been practiced by political organizations with both rightist and leftist objectives, by nationalistic and religious groups, by revolutionaries, and even by state institutions such as armies, intelligence services, and police.

Hence, what really separates the average criminal from a terrorist is perhaps the intent: A need to make a political statement, or to be heard, so to speak, via the use of violence to create a climate of fear.

And that brings me to the recent news of Sarkosky's visit to Israel, when an Israeli soldier is said to have shot himself as they were boarding a plane. Total B.S. I don't believe a word of what we were told. That guy was assassinated to be sure. That an Israeli soldier is incapable of performing a simple ceremony without shooting himself? Yeah right. There is a growing resentment, even a growing hatred for those in power.
If he had of succeeded in putting a bullet in S's head, would that have been terrorism? You bet your ass he would have been labelled that. It feels like we're already living in the NWO, no point saying otherwise.

eta - and I hope that near-miss keeps not only S quivering with nightsweats, I hope the msg gets through to those doing the enslaving.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: deBeauxOs on July 03, 2008, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: Toedancer
... And that brings me to the recent news of Sarkosky's visit to Israel, when an Israeli soldier is said to have shot himself as they were boarding a plane. Total B.S. I don't believe a word of what we were told. ...
TD, I had not heard of that incident, so I looked, and it is quite odd (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3yi_TEnDQ9VDtsBn8xJspe61TfgD91HD6E00).  If he was making a political statement by killing himself, then it seems that the authorities suppressed that information.  They were quite emphatic though, to "prove" that it was suicide and not an attempted assassination that was thwarted.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: sparqui on July 03, 2008, 07:38:25 PM
Quote from: deBeauxOs
Instead of starting a new thread, I'm posting this (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0243020020080702) here.
Quote
A Palestinian construction worker rammed a bulldozer into buses and cars on one of west Jerusalem's busiest streets on Wednesday, killing three Israelis and wounding more than 40 before he was shot dead. .... There was no immediate claim of responsibility from militant groups. Relatives and police named the attacker as 30-year-old Hosam Dwayyat, a construction worker from Arab East Jerusalem. Police were trying to establish whether he had acted alone.
[/i]Some of the news-gathering organizations are calling it a terrorist act.  Which raises the omnipresent philosophical question: If a single, lone individual commits violence against those he considers his brutalizers, is it an act of terror?

eta: I'm not condoning nor justifying what he did.

I don't see how they can call him a terrorist. It sounds to me like an act of random violence much along the lines of the guy in Texas who climbed a tower and shot passersby (Charles Whitman, 1966) or countless other similar incidents (most of them work place or school related). Just because he happen to be an Arab Israeli, his actions are considered terrorism? I don't buy it. That's just an excuse for the Israeli government to toughen their already oppressive policies (to protect against terrorism). Can you imagine if the Canadian or US governments went to the homes of such deranged people as Marc Lepine, Kimveer Gill, etc, and bulldozed their parent's home to the ground? This man was not connected to any terrorist group or radical political group. He didn't leave behind any manifesto.

It's a horrific incident that resulted in deaths. So were Dawson College, Ecole Polytechnique, Colombine, OC Transpo, Canada Post, etc.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: deBeauxOs on July 03, 2008, 08:22:38 PM
It's all so complex and complicated.  The Palestinian construction worker was ... a tradesman? Was he well paid?  Did he enjoy a quality of life that most other Palestinians in Israel or the Occupied Territories do not have?  Was he directed to commit this atrocity by someone in a militant organization who threatened to hurt or kill members of his family?  Was he an abused and exploited worker? Was it a form of retaliation for a unbearable employment situation - called 'going postal' when it happens in the US?

Can the individual murderous action of one person against a deliberately defined target (female engineering students or aboriginals or Tutsis or abortion providers or Hindus or ...) be an isolated action when a particular history/geography of violence and injustice exists?  

And in Jerusalem, it's not simply Palestinians and Israëlis: there is increasing physical demonstrations of hostility between secular folks and the orthodox, for example.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: sparqui on July 03, 2008, 08:34:22 PM
Those are all good questions dBO.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: deBeauxOs on July 03, 2008, 08:49:00 PM
Quote from: sparqui
Those are all good questions dBO.
That's the easy part.  Finding 'good' answers to them is a monumental undertaking, innit?
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: sparqui on July 03, 2008, 08:52:00 PM
For sure. What's sad is that very few want to even question let alone answer these things. It's just easier to label it as to fit with whatever reality the PTB want to paint.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: sparqui on July 04, 2008, 01:46:32 PM
Update:

Not a terrorist after all... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/2236930/Jerusalem-bulldozer-terrorist%27s-%27heart-broken-by-Jewish-girl%27.html?service=print)
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: skdadl on July 31, 2008, 08:25:10 AM
I don't know whether this merits a new thread -- it's just a historical marker, I guess. People have probably heard that PM Ehud Olmert has announced that he won't be running for his party's (Kadima's) leadership in September, probably because he isn't getting untangled from a few corruption scandals any time soon.

As I understand it, that means his successor would either have to make an alliance with other parties to become PM, or call an election -- which everyone at the moment thinks that oppo Likudnik leader and ultra-batshit hawk Netanyahu would win.

Everyone available is pretty hawkish -- not that Olmert wasn't, but we're talking in relative terms here.

Sigh.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Toedancer on August 06, 2008, 03:16:05 PM
Israel Selling Off Palestinian Oil (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/11/07/do0705.xml)

While they talk about Aid to Gaza, how ridiggulous is that?
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Toedancer on August 07, 2008, 09:19:10 PM
The article is sensational enuf (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218104239541&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull) but holy mother of all that is reason, check out the banner at the top of that page of the Jerusalem Post!
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Toedancer on January 15, 2010, 01:28:58 AM
US army to double weapons stockpiled in Israel (http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=116153§ionid=3510203)

Quote
In December, US President Barack Obama granted $ 2.775 billion in security aid to Israel. The aid is accompanied by special additions to the Israeli military industries for the development of technologies, particularly in the missile field.

But this is not related in any way to Iran. Fekin liars!
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: skdadl on January 15, 2010, 07:38:12 AM
Some of it is undoubtedly Iran, but a lot of this is just the logic of the MIC -- which is exactly the topic of this thread. Munnee makes the world go 'round, and military-industrial munnee is the biggest munnee of all -- they're feeding the beast. George Bernard Shaw taught us all that over a century ago, and since then it has just got worse.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Toedancer on February 10, 2010, 01:15:23 AM
I'm tired tonight, so am lazy. This American Bachmann woman is a loon, to think her husband owns a mental health clinic somehow makes ev she says all normal though, cuz that's how it is right now in the excited states.
God will ‘curse’ America if it opposes Israel (http://rawstory.com/2010/02/bachmann-god-curse-opposes-israel/)

So this Christian Zionist believes in 'curses'. WTF? Spinny as a shithouse rat and helping to ratch up the next false flag I guess, or maybe Obama is being too 'demanding' of Israel lately and could get himself assassinated, who the F knows.

Quote
While Bachmann has opposed government intervention in the economy, including President Obama's stimulus package, Raw Story reported that she and her family have received nearly a quarter of a million dollars in farm subsidies over the past decade

Munnee, munnee, munnee.
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Croghan27 on June 27, 2010, 05:44:28 PM
Cannot say I surprised to see that Thomas L. Friedman supports Israel, he has been bending the news for years to do it.

Today he has gone beyond himself. On the day that Frank Rich posts a very sensible essay (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/opinion/27rich.html) saying what Greenwald has said for years about the press corp 'inside the beltway', Friedman comes out swinging in support of his country. (Hell - he does not say such positive things about America!)
This is his take on the latest Israeli wars: (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/opinion/27friedman.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fopinion%2Findex.jsonp)

Quote
Israel today is enjoying another timeout because it recently won three   short wars  —  and then encountered one pleasant surprise. The first was   a war to dismantle the corrupt Arafat regime. The second was the war   started by Hezbollah in Lebanon and finished by a merciless pounding of   Shiite towns and Beirut suburbs by the Israeli Air Force. The third was   the war to crush the Hamas missile launchers in Gaza.

I would say that Israel is losing a PR war here if it has to result in such obvious prevarication. It may be a quibble, but Thomas L. seems to have discovered a definition of 'recent' that has escaped me so far ... Israel went after Arafat in 1982.  :confused

As well - if I recall correctly. Israel invaded Lebanon, as is its' occasional want, only to be stopped in its' tracks by Hezbollah. In reference to the Gaza slaughter - it is a wonder what a modern army can do against schools and farms and a few fools who begged, borrowed or stole some grenade launchers.

My point here is that he has dropped any pretence of being subtitle - and come out swinging in a very partisan way.   

What I find new about this post is that he thinks it is time for Israel to reward itself for all the bloodthirstiness. The Palestinian security forces built by Abbas and Fayyad in the West   Bank are the real deal, and their effectiveness is a vital stabilizer of   the current timeout.      

Despite having his political base turn toward Hamas - Abbas, the current West Bank leader and Israel had best concoct some kind of deal, including one to stop the west bank constructions, before they have to deal with Ismail Haniyeh (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Haniyeh.html), the Hamas leader in Gaza.


Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: Toedancer on September 17, 2010, 12:04:41 PM
When American officials are asked to explain the country's  largest   weapons sale ever, including $100 billion-worth of arms to  Saudi Arabia   and other Gulf States, they mutter one word behind  their hands. Iran. (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Washington+arms+Middle+East+allies+contain+Iran/3537343/story.html)

Israel gave the okay, tho technically they are at war with Saudi Arabia, but of course, it's about weaponizing the enemies of your ally, because we're in stupid-land with militaristic Obama. Christ he makes Bush look like a liberal.

In the article there is this statement -
Quote
Israel gave its seal of approval after getting the guarantee that  it   will get the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, which Canada also  intends   to buy and which is several technical generations ahead of  the F-15.

Which is not accurate. Israel won't be spending a dime, they are a gift, within the U.S. military aid to Israel. But Canada will have to pay.

[url=http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-decides-to-buy-f-35-fighter-jets-despite-row-over-cost-of-deal-1.314213]Rather the entire cost will be covered by the US government in the form of military aid (http://news.antiwar.com/2010/09/16/following-fierce-debate-israel-decides-to-buy-f-35-warplanes/), meaning the US will be pasying Lockheed directly and delivering the warplnes to Israel for free[/url]

So does this mean the world is going to be relatively safe from nuking Iran until 2015 when the jets will be ready? And will Canada be part of bombing Iran back to the stone ages?
 
Title: Re: Israel and the war on terror: munnee munnee munnee
Post by: pogge on September 17, 2010, 12:24:45 PM
it's about weaponizing the enemies of your ally

To a great extent, it's about exactly what you're reporting on: the arms trade. It's one of the few areas left where the Americans have a positive balance of trade and it's much easier to close the deal if you can point to a specific enemy. If Iran didn't exist, the military contractors would invent one.