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The Globe => North Africa and the Middle East => Topic started by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 12:37:49 PM

Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 12:37:49 PM
Twitpic shows police surrounded by peaceful protesters (http://twitpic.com/3tbdn3).  More links and updates later.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 25, 2011, 12:49:05 PM
And the international media concentrates on the Oscars while there is a revolution going on. CBC pathetic.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 25, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
Funny you should say that, Toe. Early this a.m. a tweet from CBC Alerts went by me, mentioning their upcoming Oscars announcement. So I tweeted back, "And could you keep an eye out for Egypt and Lebanon too?"

I was tweeting at something not far above the level of a bot, of course, so no answer. But at least my tweeps read it.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 25, 2011, 12:58:49 PM
I will be very surprised if this situation works out quickly or well. Egypt is important to the U.S.-Israel alliance in a way that almost no other country is (except for Saudi Arabia, in a different way). The people from State, CIA, DIA, etc will all be in there already, mucking about. The opposition in Egypt is very strong, very politically sophisticated, very anti-U.S. -- that's why the repression has been so fierce.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 01:01:45 PM
Many report that hundreds, possibly thousands of protesters in Tahrir Square, Cairo are ... 
Quote
not going home. They need food & blankets. Roads are closed so plz anyone lives local to Tahrir help

People I follow on Twitter for updates:
@monaeltahawy Mona Eltahawy 
@Dima_Khatib Dima Khatib
@weddady weddady
@Zeinobia Egyptian blogger http://egyptianchronicles.blogspot.com 
@LaurenBohn Lauren E. Bohn
 
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 01:32:09 PM
@weddady: 
Quote
Pour suivre les événements du #Jan25 en égypte traduits en Français suivre @khola83  @mabmbarek
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 25, 2011, 01:44:15 PM
bbc:
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12272836 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12272836)
 
Guardian has live updates:
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/jan/25/middleeast-tunisia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/jan/25/middleeast-tunisia)
 
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 02:03:54 PM
Tweets report that Egyptian gov't is trying to shut down FB.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 25, 2011, 02:08:15 PM
LiveFeed (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/cairodowntown) which I got from the FB Group (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk?v=wall)
Hopefully FB is not shut down. The restaurant owners are feeding some of them.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 25, 2011, 02:12:01 PM
Funny you should say that, Toe. Early this a.m. a tweet from CBC Alerts went by me, mentioning their upcoming Oscars announcement. So I tweeted back, "And could you keep an eye out for Egypt and Lebanon too?"

I was tweeting at something not far above the level of a bot, of course, so no answer. But at least my tweeps read it.

Ha! So I still don't get twitterland, your "And could you keep an eye out for Egypt and Lebanon too?" Who was that in response to, anyone specific, or just a general tweet? Good for You Skdadl!
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 02:15:46 PM
The Atlantic: Shadi Hamid on the US dilemma in Egypt (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/after-tunisia-obamas-impossible-dilemma-in-egypt/70123/). 
Quote
Nowhere is the U.S. dilemma more urgent than in Egypt. Predictions that a Tunisia-like uprising will soon topple Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak are premature - the Egyptian regime, with its well-paid military, is likely to be more unified and more ruthless than its Tunisian counterparts were. But whether an Egyptian revolt succeeds or fails, we can be sure that one will be attempted. The first test of opposition strength will come today, when thousands are expected to participate in what organizers are calling "day of revolution."

This raises a thorny question for the U.S.: If tens of thousands take to the streets - and stay on the streets - what will it do? The U.S. is the primary benefactor of the Egyptian regime, which, in turn, has reliably supported American regional priorities. After Iraq, Afghanistan, and Israel, Egypt is the largest recipient of U.S. assistance, including $1.3 billion in annual military aid. In other words, if the army ever decides to shoot into a crowd of unarmed protestors, it will be shooting with hardware provided by the United States. As Steven Cook of the Council on Foreign Relations points out, the Egyptian military is "not there to project power, but to protect the regime."
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 25, 2011, 02:20:10 PM
They don't fucking dare! The world is watching!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 25, 2011, 02:23:15 PM
They don't fucking dare! The world is watching!

Not confirmed - a tweet @ livestream - http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Egypt-Presidents-son-and-family-have-fled-to (http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Egypt-Presidents-son-and-family-have-fled-to) 1 minute ago
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 02:23:51 PM
They don't fucking dare! The world is watching!
Which is why e-comm networks are down.  Twitter no longer working.  Livestreaming - *ancient*, analog technology? - is reportedly available.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 25, 2011, 02:30:41 PM
@CBCAlerts is a tweep (of a kind), so that's who I was answering. I don't follow that many corpse media but I do some, and sometimes I talk back to them, although it usually gets me precisely nowhere. My international friends like that, though, b/c they wouldn't see much Canadian stuff otherwise.

I don't know what the U.S. will do about Egypt, but this is a very different situation for them from the one in Tunisia. Ben Ali was just corrupt, and they supported him, but they don't care if he's replaced. Egypt is essential to their ME foreign policy, and they know the truth about Al Qaeda -- Al Qaeda is and always has been Egypt and Saudi Arabia -- it was so fake to attack Al Q in Afghanistan, although maybe not so much in Pakistan, where all this has migrated.

When I say it's Egypt and Saudi Arabia, I partly mean that Al Q grew there and is the opposition there, very sophisticated opposition too. But the governments are complicit as well -- the Saudis especially are playing eleventy-dimensional chess. So are the real powers behind the U.S. gov.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 25, 2011, 02:37:41 PM
Not Confirmed/Egypt President/son/family fled to the UK (http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Egypt-Presidents-son-and-family-have-fled-to-the-UK_311591050596.html)

Thanks skdadl for the explanation.

dB yes I know, I geddit.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Antonia on January 25, 2011, 03:22:42 PM
Just FYI, follow #jan25 and/or #egypt
easier than following individuals
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 25, 2011, 03:33:42 PM
AlJazeera reporting 2 civilians killed in eastern city Suez and a police officer died in the capital   Tahrir Square in the city centre - state television reported. (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/20111251711053608.html)
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 03:50:28 PM
Just FYI, follow #jan25 and/or #egypt
easier than following individuals


My preference is to follow key individuals to avoid the traffic glut of multiple RT's.


Mother Jones piece about Egypt (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/whats-happening-egypt-explained).
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Antonia on January 25, 2011, 04:18:55 PM
DBO, what's your handle on twitter?

eta: nebber mind. found it.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 25, 2011, 05:21:28 PM
Sorry for the slight diversion, but you don't get "traffic glut" by following a hashtag on Twitter. Traffic glut comes from following others; hashtags aren't what determines your feed, and you have to go to them to follow a sustained conversation. Your feed is determined by who you follow.

People have different theories about what Twitter is good for. WL, eg, follows nobody. Actually, I doubt that's true - I suspect they all have aliases, frequently changed, but they definitely know who to follow, and not just by hashtag. Ottawa journalists follow each other, kind of like Washington journos. You learn these things by watching their strange behaviour. Most of them still do not seem to get what social networking actually means.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 06:44:49 PM
Traffic glut is how I choose to describe the MASSIVE number of MeToo! tweets and RT's that get all jammed in with those produced by credible sources.  It's what happens when a particular # goes viral or 'trending'.

That's why I prefer to follow specific individuals who offer the substance I want with links to pics, news items and articles.

It may not be the way to use Twitter if someone wants to surf a trend, but it works for me.

DBO, what's your handle on twitter? eta: nebber mind. found it.
:)) Hey! We had a little chat about my handle.   :p
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 25, 2011, 07:01:47 PM
Oh, well -- if you're following people who RT indiscriminately, then you should just unfollow those people, if your own feed is what you're thinking about.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on January 25, 2011, 07:11:24 PM
It is important to think in depth and historically as well as following events closely. Please don't forget sources such as Le Monde diplomatique and Alternatives www.alternatives.ca

Et je vous en prie, no "unfollow". Newspeak is not a friend of critical thought.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 25, 2011, 07:19:13 PM
Well, I thought I was doing in-depth and moderately historical earlier, when I tried to discuss power relations involving Egypt.

It's great that so many ppl on Twitter are excited to think that Egypt could go the way of Tunisia (and we don't even know yet what that might be), but I'm pretty sure that simply will not happen in Egypt. The US and Israel will not allow it. I don't know whether that means they save Mubarak personally, but they certainly are not going to let the opposition take over there. They can't. That would be a war.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on January 25, 2011, 08:03:01 PM
You were thinking historically. But really, while twitter and co. are important news sources, it isn't all about them.

I don't have the time to follow tweets all day, so I prefer to read in-depth articles and follow news sources (alternative and the better bourgie ones, such as Grauniad and Libération) and keep up to date with comrades from a range of social movements in Tunisia. I don't know as many people in Egypt, or who have left it recently - I know several Egyptian Montrealers, but they left at least 20 years ago, if not a generation or two.

I was an active member of Le Centre d'études arabes pour le développement - one of the founding members of Alternatives - for many years. One of my regrets is that although I did take courses in Arabic - and gord did I love the calligraphy - I can't really read news articles, less still academic ones, in the language.

Very slight digression - young'uns, do study a major "non-Western" language when you are young and your brain is flexible, eh?
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 10:00:56 PM
Oh, well -- if you're following people who RT indiscriminately, then you should just unfollow those people, if your own feed is what you're thinking about.

Funny, I actually said the opposite of that.
 
I follow people that come to my attention because their tweets contain observations that ring true or link to external material, documentation & sources that are solid and offer credible information.
 
I've observed that threads limited to trending #topics are mostly time-wasting traffic gluts, unless I'm trying to track back the origin of an interesting discussion that has been RT'ed by those I follow and trust.
 
ETA: original purpose - post links with important background information.
 
Ha'aretz (http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/neighbors-dying-for-a-revolution-1.339248).
 
CSM (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/0125/A-dam-breaking-in-Egypt).
 
NPR (http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133211784/egyptian-protesters-demand-end-to-mubareks-rule).
 
RadioFreeEurope/RadioLiberty (http://www.rferl.org/content/egypt_protests/2286484.html).
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 25, 2011, 10:16:28 PM
Some great links including “The Council on Foreign Relations have been preparing contingency plans for Egyptian instability” (http://filasteen.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/egypt-a-dam-has-broken/)
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 25, 2011, 11:42:30 PM
Article by  (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/25/AR2011012507200.html)Mona Eltahawy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/25/AR2011012507200.html):
Quote
For years, Western observers of the Arab world have effectively helped shore up the dictators by stating as fact that Arabs don't revolt. Much to Egyptian pain and chagrin, analysts would point to our country, where protests have been the preserve of a small, dedicated but not always connected group of activists.

Mubarak, the longest-serving ruler in modern-day Egypt, would smartly give in to enough of workers' demands as necessary to appease; then his security forces would beat and detain the street activists who persevered.Whether tensions ran high over rigged elections, food shortages, Internet censoring, media repression or police brutality, the conventional wisdom has held that Mubarak would sleep without worry until thousands of Egyptians took to the streets.


Finally, on Tuesday, feet were on the ground. Thousands turned out in Cairo, Alexandria and across the country as the anti-government fervor fired up not just activists but families, too.Watching Tunisians make possible what Arabs have always been told was impossible burned away the apathy that bound Egyptians - and revealed decades' worth of smoldering rage.


And this (http://egyprotest-defense.blogspot.com/search/label/Jan25).
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 26, 2011, 02:47:51 PM
So Clinton is getting scared. (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70P71O20110126)

This is the quote that matters, interpretation from Council on Foreign Relations:

Quote
Robert Danin of the Council on Foreign Relations think tank said Clinton's remarks for the first time appeared to make clear what the United States wants to see in Egypt: genuine change that originates from the government rather than a dramatic overthrow as occurred in Tunisia.

As the first Arab state to make peace with Israel, Egypt has much greater strategic importance to the United States than Tunisia. Egypt has long received major U.S. aid and supported Washington's efforts to promote a wider Arab-Israeli peace.

"This is not a walking away from the alliance with Egypt in any way but, at the same time, putting the Egyptian government on notice that changes are going to have to come pretty quickly," Danin said.

"It is trying to lay out a way there can be managed change if the regime is responsive to the people," he said. "It (the Obama administration) doesn't want to see the means adopted in Tunisia -- which would necessitate the leadership to flee."

The White House took a similar stance, making clear that it was monitoring events closely and that it fully supported the Egyptian people's right to peacefully protest.

"We are supportive of the universal rights of assembly (and) speech. ... We would stress quite clearly for all involved that expressions should be free from violence," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters aboard Air Force One.

"This is an important time for the government to demonstrate its responsibilities to the people of Egypt in recognizing those universal rights," Gibbs said.

Iow, they will stop any genuine revolution. The US and Israel will -- watch for statements from Israel.

ETA: Heh. Forgot I wasn't doing HTML.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 26, 2011, 03:23:06 PM
Yes, european reaction is coming in now.

Quote
Guido Westerwelle, the German foreign minister, said  he was "very concerned" and called on all concerned to show restraint:<blockquote>The   situation in Egypt must not escalate. The current situation in Egypt   ... underlines the necessity of democratisation, of respect for human   and civil rights. We are seeing in the last few weeks that a country's   stability is not endangered by granting civil rights; it is through the   refusal of civil and human rights that societies become unstable.</blockquote>The   office of Lady Ashton, the EU's foreign policy chief, said Egyptian   authorities should listen to their people, deal with their problems and   respect their right to demonstrate, urging the "Egyptian authorities to   respect and to protect the right of Egyptian citizens to manifest their   political aspirations"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/jan/26/egypt-protests
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 26, 2011, 03:35:17 PM
Western governments are desperate to save Mubarak, or at least some semblance of his regime. So they are all babbling about doing this through reform of the current government. This is a revolution they really do not want.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 26, 2011, 03:41:04 PM
Several indy videos of #jan25 protests in Alexandria & Cairo posted here (http://politicallyillustrated.com/index.php?/news_page/video/2283/).
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 26, 2011, 03:53:09 PM
...

Quote
The office of Lady Ashton, the EU's foreign policy chief, said Egyptian authorities should listen to their people, deal with their problems and respect their right to demonstrate, urging the "Egyptian authorities to respect and to protect the right of Egyptian citizens to manifest their political aspirations"
Funny how *the office of Lady Ashton* left out the bit about "nemmind that we once told you to control that geographical zone by any means necessary - here's yr cheque - even if that means depriving your dumbass dusky-skinned peons of their human rights".
 ::)


ETA: Sophie Langlois' opinion piece in Frenc (http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/carnets/2011/01/26/132145.shtml?auteur=2269)h.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 26, 2011, 04:20:58 PM
Funny how *the office of Lady Ashton* left out the bit about "nemmind that we once told you to control that geographical zone by any means necessary - here's yr cheque - even if that means depriving your dumbass dusky-skinned peons of their human rights".
 ::)

Hee. Well she had to be deployed at some point dB; wot with her punishing schedule (http://blogs.euobserver.com/waterfield/2011/01/10/absent-ashton-a-part-time-eu-foreign-minister)...can u imagine the psychoanalysis bills these asshats would run their taxpayers if they were actually in analysis?

For those interested:

Flagrant EU Corruption in times of austerity (http://riddick2.blogspot.com/2011/01/flagrant-eu-corruption-wed-26-jan-2011.html#more)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 26, 2011, 05:05:27 PM
Just to put last summer in forus ....it was just mentioned on the CBC that three people have been killed today in Egyptian riots .......
 
The Egyption government has put 860 people in prison
 
GEEZE - the Harperthugs can round of a grand just for standing around. They need some good Canadian lessons.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 26, 2011, 05:53:50 PM
Don't make a push for democratic change in Egypt if you can't back it up. (http://www.france24.com/en/20110126-debate-washington-and-the-arab-world-egypt-obama)

It's been tweeted that journalists following a group of protesters were told by police that they'd be allowed to leave safely.  In response the journos started a sit-down.  Not sure if this is Cairo, Alexandria or Suez - where the retaliation has been brutal, it's alleged police set fire to a building and a number of protesters have died
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on January 26, 2011, 08:08:59 PM
They interviewed a young 20 yr old female protester on As It Happens and she said that 6 protesters have been killed and at least 1000 arrested. They expect to have huge crowds after Friday prayers. She also adamantly denied that meme that it's an Islamic revolution, directed by the Muslim Brotherhood.

Speaking of official western bias, of course they're not welcoming revolutionary change. If it ain't got George Soros' (Open Society Institute) stamp of approval, it doesn't count as "democratic".
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 26, 2011, 10:09:58 PM
The role of internetworking as catharsis in Egypt (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/how-a-brutal-beating-and-facebook-led-to-egyptian-protests/article1884156/) - similar to the 'speak anger' technique used by oppressed groups (http://est.sagepub.com/content/7/2/133.abstract) (formally or informally) as a path to political action, with a contemporary digital application.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 27, 2011, 10:58:51 AM
Massacre in Suez (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/reports-massacre-suez-protests-egypt/)  Total black out, not allowing any journos in. Some tweets say protesters pouring gas on cops/military and threatening to set on fire.

FB group saying cops using live ammunition (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)

Haven't checked all sources, not even the Guardian yet, but this is obviously out of control and Obama's msg this a.m. of being more assertive with Mubarak means nothing.

Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 27, 2011, 11:03:23 AM
Has anyone seen an official statement from Israel? The Israeli gov really does not want upsets in Egypt.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 27, 2011, 11:06:16 AM
I haven't had time to look. One tweet says Egyptian military has taken over the police forces (http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23Suez)

ETA - Finally Clinton is questioned on just wtf 'stability' means.

Quote
In an interview Tuesday on CNN's Connect the World, ElBaradei   disputed a recent comment from U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton   that the Egyptian government is stable. "Stability is when you   have a government that is elected on a free and fair basis. And we have   seen, you know, how the election has been rigged in Egypt. We have seen   how people have been tortured," he said.
I won't even link to cnn, they are misrepresenting the facts on the ground, but @ El Baradei is to take part in protests/willing to lead (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4020176,00.html) and of course the Muslim Brotherhood is saying moving along with it, but not inciting. Who knows though.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on January 27, 2011, 03:45:42 PM
I sent an e-mail to a friend in Egypt and she had this to say:

Quote
'm very scared ,,, although the news on the ground is alot calmer then what is going on on the net and the facebook ,,, but if  Mubarak  doesn't step down and give the people what they want ,, I think the Ekhwan will jump and take control ,, which will be the end of Egypt as we know it.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 27, 2011, 09:32:15 PM
Thanks sparks. Today I saw on CBC a short vid of a man being shot in the head by the Egyptian authorities. I couldn't believe it. Thought I would look for it...no go. But it did HAPPEN (http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/sources-say-egypt-police-shot-bedouin-protester-dead-in-sinai-1.339582)

CBC has got the footage. Fuck CBC, Here It Is (http://video.ap.org/?f=None&pid=oT7qj_wiVHTbYae3scwok4_irYjJ2R8Z) Crimes Against Humanity right there!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Antonia on January 27, 2011, 09:54:01 PM
Unfruckenbelievable (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/0127/Joe-Biden-says-Egypt-s-Mubarak-no-dictator-he-shouldn-t-step-down?cmpid=addthis_twitter&sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4d421b92d593d07c%2C0)

Quote
Ahead of a day that could prove decisive, NewsHour host Jim Lehrer   asked Biden if the time has "come for President Mubarak of Egypt to go?"   Biden answered: "No. I think the time has come for President Mubarak to   begin to move in the direction that – to be more responsive to some...   of the needs of the people out there."
Asked if he would   characterize Mubarak as a dictator Biden responded: “Mubarak has been an   ally of ours in a number of things. And he’s been very responsible on,   relative to geopolitical interest in the region, the Middle East peace   efforts; the actions Egypt has taken relative to normalizing   relationship with – with Israel. … I would not refer to him as a   dictator.”
He also appeared to make one of the famous Biden   gaffes, in comments that could be interpreted as questioning the   legitimacy of protesters' demands. Monitor Cairo correspondent Kristen   Chick, other reporters in the country, and activists have generally   characterized the main calls of demonstrators as focused on freedom,   democracy, an end to police torture, and a more committed government   effort to address the poverty that aflicts millions of Egyptians.
Biden   urged non-violence from both protesters and the government and said:   "We’re encouraging the protesters to – as they assemble, do it   peacefully. And we’re encouraging the government to act responsibly and –   and to try to engage in a discussion as to what the legitimate claims   being made are, if they are, and try to work them out." He also said: "I   think that what we should continue to do is to encourage reasonable...   accommodation and discussion to try to resolve peacefully and amicably   the concerns and claims made by those who have taken to the street. And   those that are legitimate should be responded to because the economic   well-being and the stability of Egypt rests upon that middle class   buying into the future of Egypt."
Egypt's protesters, if they're   paying attention to Biden at all, will certainly be wondering which of   their demands thus far have been illegitimate.

As one of my Tweeps said: Wake-up People of the USA! You're next!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 27, 2011, 10:05:33 PM
Love ya A, but why bother reading anything neutered Biden has to say, or anyone from the U.S. Because they have the power? They don't. Not anymore. It's all out fucking war against-those-who-serve-4 chickens-to their-pets now, at state dinners. Biden should go the way of the doo-doo bird, such as Obama. Already old news.
Before I go to bed I thought I would ask, why are all PB's too stupid to check out the real news?
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 05:08:20 AM
That's not a gaffe -- that's the State Dep't line on Egypt all the way; they're all saying the same thing.

All the Western governments are invested in Mubarak to a degree, but that's a huge part of U.S. and Israeli policy. Turning it around is going to be like turning the Titanic -- I don't know whether they can. The Israeli reaction bears watching -- that could be extremely dangerous.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 05:30:48 AM
WikiLeaks is releasing its trove of Egyptian cables -- fascinating to watch on Twitter. Can't keep up.

Some spledding mistakes in the tweets. We know who can't spell. ;)

ETA: LOL: "Egyption" is trending on Twitter b/c of a WL mispledding. Too funny.
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 08:37:38 AM
If you can watch livestreams, Al Jazeera English and BBC both available here. (http://www.livestation.com/channels/3-al-jazeera-english-english) Amazing scenes in Cairo and Suez. Reports that protesters have liberated one prison (not sure whether that was Suez) and freed the arrested protestors imprisoned there.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 10:34:00 AM
Al J's Cairo office is reporting that state security have entered the building they're in and are on the way up. Amazing to follow this.

Reports that the army have entered the city.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 28, 2011, 11:06:57 AM
This sums it up (http://twitter.com/#!/weddady/status/31018278876880896) in less than 140 characters. 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 11:12:40 AM
CNN reports Mubarak about to speak. Curfew in effect in Cairo, Aleandria, and Suez. Riot police driving their vans right into people in the crowd. Army now deployed on the streets of Cairo. Army shutting down Al-Jazeera in Cairo. Protests now in several cities. Banks being invaded and burned. White House and State Department watching carefully. ::)
 
 
80,000 people on the streets breaking curfew chanting "Mubarak, Mubarak, go to Saudi Arabia"

 
(sorry if I'm repeating info - this is coming on CNN live wire)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 11:17:42 AM
People are still out, though, in spite of the curfew -- tens of thousands in central Cairo, also Alexandria and Suez, and there are reports from many other places. Trying to follow news about Mubarak's speech, but Al J keeps cutting out -- I guess they're overloaded.

Israeli silence deafening so far.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on January 28, 2011, 11:22:08 AM
There is a picket TODAY (Friday) in Mtl at the Egyptian consulate

In support of our people in Egypt there will be a picket at the

Egyptian consulate in Montreal
1000, rue de la Gauchetière West

2PM to 5:30PM

There is also a picket TODAY in Ottawa, but I don't have the details - I don't know whether it is outside the Embassy or Parliament, or a march from one to the other. Another demo TOMORROW (Saturday) in Toronto - once again I have no more details as to time or location. I'm not aware of any other Canadian demos, pickets or other actions.

Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 11:29:42 AM
Ruling party headquarters in Cairo on fire! :applause
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 11:31:23 AM
:strike  :strike  :strike :strike   :strike    :applause
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 11:32:52 AM
CNN: tanks and armoured personnel carriers all over Cairo. Ruling party HQ totally engulfed in flames.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 11:52:07 AM
Ruling party is, unfortunately, called the National Democratic Party -- ie, the NDP.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on January 28, 2011, 11:56:11 AM
I'm not necessarily so thrilled about the ruling party headquarters engulfed in flames - remember, that means eliminating a lot of evidence.

skdadl, the French name of the NDP - NPD - is the same initials as a far-right neo-Nazi-ish party in Germany. A German friend here voted NDP but said the initials really made her wince.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 12:03:53 PM
AJE direct feed here is working for me. (http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/)

The sounds of the crowd are incredible, and this is over an hour after the curfew. Mubarak keeps delaying his speech. He's no doubt on the phone to Washington ...
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 12:05:06 PM
Protestors swarm and overtake Army vehicle - army refuses to fire on protestors. A good sign?
 
 
Police are firing tear gas everywhere, but the army is standing down. Army vs police next?
 
 
ETA:  Clinton calling on Mubarak to dial back the police and security forces and get busy with implementing massive reforms.
 
ETA: Jamie Rubin (former ass't secretary of state) calling on the US to side with the democratic reformers on the street.
 
ETA: CNN is hearing gunfire in Cairo as protestors confront police.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on January 28, 2011, 12:17:08 PM
OMG, I am both fearful and elated. My friend hasn't responded by e-mail so I guess they have totally closed down all communications.

Obama and Clinton can go f themselves.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 12:21:42 PM
I agree with you on Clinton and Obama - they are part of the problem, not the solution.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Antonia on January 28, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
Demo in Toronto, 1-4 p.m., Saturday, Dundas Square.
Definitely going.

Only hitch is Yonge subway line closed south of Bloor I believe.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 28, 2011, 01:07:41 PM
Report that Mubarak has taken ElBaradei captive to keep him from leading the protestors; also about Wikileaks and leaflets:
 
http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.com/2011/01/has-mubarak-seized-elbaradei.html (http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.com/2011/01/has-mubarak-seized-elbaradei.html)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 28, 2011, 01:10:09 PM
Just tried to go to Al Jazeera (http://www.livestation.com/channels/3-al-jazeera-english-english) to get a handle on what is happening.
 
A sign is there saying their website is busy, overload ...... more than me had that idea.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 02:02:19 PM
I'm getting AJE but it's very blippy and I think it's slowing my machine down (or maybe that's my email scan). It's dark there now so you can't see much except fires here and there. We did get some good shots through a broken window of looters scooting out of NDP HQ with, y'know, loot. The commentary is great though -- sheesh, compare that to most of what's on NA TV and radio.

It doesn't sound to me as though the Merkins have moved much at all. Obama sounds to me more and more sickeningly patriarchal every time I hear him, not only on this issue -- can't bear listening to him. Clinton right now sounds as though she's resisting the very statement she's reading, choking on her own words. Going to harass the spokesthingies at State on Twitter.



Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 02:04:35 PM
Demo in Toronto, 1-4 p.m., Saturday, Dundas Square.
Definitely going.

Only hitch is Yonge subway line closed south of Bloor I believe.

Antonia, you mean the Yonge line is closed right now? Why? Or are they just closing it tomorrow b/c Toronto is getting used to being a police state? Surely not.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 02:19:49 PM
time (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2044929,00.html) is quoting an unnamed Israeli official / minister to this effect:

Quote
"We believe that Egypt is going to overcome the current wave of demonstrations, but we have to look to the future," says the minister in the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Israel enjoys diplomatic relations and security cooperation with both Egypt and Jordan, the only neighboring states that have signed treaties with the Jewish state. But while it may be more efficient to deal in with a strongman in Cairo — Mubarak has ruled for 30 years — and a king in Amman, democracies make better neighbors, "because democracies do not initiate wars," he says. (See pictures of Egypt's protests.)

"Having said that, I'm not sure the time is right for the Arab region to go through the democratic process."

Figures.

There's noise coming through about Jordan and Syria -- Lebanon too, although that's not the same problem.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 02:32:27 PM
AJE just tweeted that there are high-ranking Egyptian generals meeting in Washington with US officials. That could be the plan. If Mubarak gets to the tipping point, the US will engineer a "peaceful" military coup, although they'll call it a transitional government.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 28, 2011, 03:09:36 PM
Peaceful demo/protest in front of Egyptian Embassy in Ottawa, right now.  Radio-Canada is reporting at least 100 people.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Antonia on January 28, 2011, 03:22:31 PM
Quote
Antonia, you mean the Yonge line is closed right now? Why? Or are they   just closing it tomorrow b/c Toronto is getting used to being a police   state? Surely not.

No, this is not connected. Construction. (http://www.thestar.com/news/article/927659--yonge-subway-to-close-this-weekend)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 04:32:15 PM
I hope that everyone has seen this photo. (http://theatlantic.tumblr.com/post/2979347100/canisfamiliaris-the-most-subversive-protest-of) It won't necessarily save them, but it is such an expression of hope.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 04:59:21 PM
CBC and CNN: "We are expecting very dramatic news out of Egypt in the next two hours".  :confused
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 05:18:20 PM
Mubarak keeps announcing that he will give a speech "shortly," but that has been going on for hours.

ETA: He has apparently made a speech that said nothing. Lots of problems, we can talk. Violence bad.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 05:31:21 PM
I listened to the speech. He has asked the gov't to resign, apparently he will appoint a new one.
 
ETA: Protestors are ranshackling the Information Ministry, which controls television and all media in the country.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 05:33:36 PM
As someone just tweeted, he fired everyone but himself.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 05:37:04 PM
As someone just tweeted, he fired everyone but himself.

Great tweet! One for the times.  :))
 
Just in: extremely negative reaction to the speech, riots intensifying.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 05:46:29 PM
Somebody else (private) -- "sack the government" means they all leave with sacks of money.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 05:52:29 PM
Cannon's statement on Egypt (http://www.international.gc.ca/media/aff/news-communiques/2011/035.aspx?lang=eng)

That could have been a lot worse. It's better than the USian statements.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 28, 2011, 06:09:13 PM
Scroll down to 5:05 p.m. for the most wunnerful pic (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates) I love the sly smiles of both the cop being kissed and the one watching. Amazing sweetness amongst such chaos.

And Gibbs said - Gibbs does go on to describe internet access as a basic right, which is a revelation of sorts. And that the WH has cut the Mubarak regime loose. ??
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on January 28, 2011, 06:14:48 PM
Lovely demo here too - well over a hundred people (on a splendid mild day) and more were arriving at the end of the standard working day.

I spent years attending the vigil against the occupation outside the Israeli consulate (not very far from the Egyptian one) and a lot of people can make it there on a Friday at noon, into the afternoon: students and professors who usually don't have Friday classes, pensioners, people like me with atypical working days (rare I had to have something done for Friday afternoon. A friend born in Alexandria (Egypt, not eastern Ontario ;)) told me about the demo and that there was also one in Ottawa - that is why I didn't have particulars about the latter and didn't want to mislead anyone.

A pan-Arab-world (Arab world includes many minorities such as Berbers, Bedouin, Druzes, Copts, Armenians, many of the Kurds etc) demo is being organised here in Mtl.

The demo was specific about speaking of unity among Muslim and Christian Egyptians against the régime - very important against recent scapegoating of Copts. (The friend who sent me the e-mail is a Copt, but of course she and I have many Muslim Egyptian friends, without distinction).

Both Mtl and Ottawa have very important Arab world populations.

On another point, skdadl, I love that pic. My experience in the Maghreb is most limited, but I've spent a lot of time in the far south of Italy, including Sicily, and I can really see how a "femme d'un certain âge" has cultural ascendancy over a young man, in those macho Mediterranean societies. I don't think the lady is the young cop's mum or aunt, but she is boldly acting as if she was. She is also being incredibly brave, like las Madres.

Toe, I'm posting this as it is long enough, but will definitely scroll down.

Have done so - we need a saveable (and larger format) pic of that courageous lady and the young riot cops. I do hope she is safe.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 06:44:25 PM
Obama just spoke - hopeful that Mubarak can usher in a new age of democracy. ::)
 
ETA: I suspect Mubarak will appoint family and cronies.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on January 28, 2011, 07:09:18 PM
Holy shite! :o A grrl goes easy on her intertube times and all hell breaks loose in Egypt!  I have some catching up to do... :popcorn
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 28, 2011, 07:12:34 PM
CNN just interviewed a ME specialist who said Mubarak is "delusional".
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 28, 2011, 07:17:02 PM
we need a saveable (and larger format) pic of that courageous lady and the young riot cops. I do hope she is safe.

YES!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 28, 2011, 07:21:33 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-94

Obama's remarks are just f'ing pathetic, he also wants to keep Mubarak on and no doubt he spoke with the fat cat before this useless PC.

• Told Hosni Mubarak he has a responsibility to deliver on promises of better democracy and greater economic opportunity.
•   Emphasised the need for Mubarak to make reforms, saying: "This moment   of volatility has to be turned into a moment of promise".
• Urged protesters in Egypt to express themselves peacefully.
• Said the US would stand up for the rights of the Egyptian people.
Bleh! and double Bleh!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 28, 2011, 07:30:48 PM
Gwynne Dyer today thinks now that the police are talking to the people, the army will likely realise the game is up and tell Mubarak to go in the next few days or weeks:
 
http://www.straight.com/article-370642/vancouver/gwynne-dyer-egyptian-revolution (http://www.straight.com/article-370642/vancouver/gwynne-dyer-egyptian-revolution)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 28, 2011, 07:55:53 PM
http://www.cjpme.org/ItemCollectionPage.aspx?ICID=57#CanadianPoliticians

Speak out for civil liberties in Middle East 

Dear Mr. Harper, Mr. Layton, Mr. Ignatieff, Mr. Duceppe, 

  This week, the Middle East is witnessing one of the most significant   popular uprisings for civil liberties in the history of the region.    Much stands to be gained or lost in these times.  Please speak out for   the freedoms of the peoples of the Middle East.   
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 28, 2011, 07:58:02 PM
Earlier today, as I set out for my co-op meeting and stopped to get a cup of tea from one of the struggling merchants on Rideau Street, I heard via the BBC a report about a specific - and strategic - action taken by protesters in Cairo.
Quote
As the NDP's headquarters burn, there were fears that the Egyptian National Museum, which houses some of the world's most ancient artifacts from the old Egyptian civilization and a beautiful collection of ancient whales fossils, would catch on fire too. There were earlier reports - albeit unconfirmed - that some people were looting the museum.
 
Now Al Jazeera is reporting that young protesters have formed a human chain around the museum to protect it against looting. It seems for now that this treasure trove of human ingenuity and the natural world's wonders is in no immediate danger.
From here (http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2011/1/28/egypt-and-beyond-liveblog-black-hole-or-another-day-of-revol.html), scroll down to 2000 GMT.
 
Also wanted to post this:
 
 (http://www.enduringamerica.com/storage/EG1.png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1296245608372)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 28, 2011, 08:18:09 PM
Here's the same woman kissing (sort of) a different soldier:
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-94 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-94)
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 28, 2011, 08:47:59 PM
She gets around eh? No, she kissed the first one (who is smiling when she kisses the other one)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on January 28, 2011, 08:56:46 PM
NDP Statement (http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-by-ndp-on-situation-in-egypt)



ETA:  Glad I am a fast reader!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 28, 2011, 09:18:55 PM
She gets around eh? No, she kissed the first one (who is smiling when she kisses the other one)
Nope, they both have mustaches; the one she kissed in the other photo had no mustache and lighter-coloured eyes.
 
The Washington Post says Mubarak will have to go.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/28/AR2011012805399.html?hpid=opinionsbox1 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/28/AR2011012805399.html?hpid=opinionsbox1)
 
Hat tip:
http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.com/2011/01/wapo-calls-for-obama-to-break-with.html (http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.com/2011/01/wapo-calls-for-obama-to-break-with.html)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 28, 2011, 09:51:53 PM
OMG HS thanks, so she still gets around eh?

Barack Obama, the US president, said he had spoken to Mubarak following his televised address,   and called on Egyptian authorities to refrain from using violence   against peaceful protesters. "This moment of volatility has to be turned   into a moment of promise," Obama said.

I don't believe him, he spoke to the puke before his pathetic press conference.
Obama is nailing his own last nail.  Doesn't have a clue to people power whatsoever.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 28, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
It took just 13 minutes to wipe 80 million Egyptians off the Internet. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/in-a-span-of-minutes-egypt-goes-offline/article1887207/)

Warning, warning...

“[After the Internet shutdown] what you’re left with are few spotty   satellite connections which then really put a spotlight on those who may   be the ringleaders of the protest,” he said. “There's a kind of   surveillance angle to this.”
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 28, 2011, 10:16:44 PM
It took just 13 minutes to wipe 80 million Egyptians off the Internet. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/in-a-span-of-minutes-egypt-goes-offline/article1887207/)

Warning, warning...

Naturally I cannot find it now ... but Egypt was off the internet for a few hours last year. They said it was some technical glitch with a broken cable. No one believed them then.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 10:29:38 PM
Poor Jacob. People keep spelling his name wrong, and there's the Grope doing it again. He has lamented this on Twitter, where he is @ioerror -- last name is Appelbaum, not Applebaum. He's the WL guy who keeps getting hassled going back into the US (he's a citizen).
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on January 28, 2011, 10:59:53 PM
But even with everything shut down, some stuff's still getting through! (http://globalvoicesonline.org/-/world/middle-east-north-africa/egypt/)


ETA: and how to help from your own computer (http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/how-you-can-directly-help-the/) (once their internet service goes back online).
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 11:31:21 PM
Superficial moment: every time I see that Al Jazeera symbol/logo (especially as it turns around in 3D), I wish I could have a set of gold earrings designed like that.

We now return you to your srs programming.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on January 28, 2011, 11:38:23 PM
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20110128/backlash-grows-over-internet-billing-decision-110128/ (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20110128/backlash-grows-over-internet-billing-decision-110128/)

Something we had better pay attention to! BasTurds! Oh I know Wrong Thread, but we had better watch it.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on January 28, 2011, 11:46:08 PM
Thousands protest in Jordan, too (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011128125157509196.html)!

Quote
Thousands of people in Jordan have taken to the streets in protests,   demanding the country's prime minister step down, and the government   curb rising prices, inflation and unemployment.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 28, 2011, 11:47:05 PM
 :))  Canadian Cynic:
 
Quote
NEWS! Egyptian president Mubarak pleads for calm, claims he just needs time to shuffle his cabinet and "recalibrate."

http://twitter.com/canadiancynic/status/31128169314525184 (http://twitter.com/canadiancynic/status/31128169314525184)
 
and others:
 
http://twitter.com/canadiancynic/status/31125557768884224 (http://twitter.com/canadiancynic/status/31125557768884224)
 
http://twitter.com/canadiancynic/status/31126947178221568 (http://twitter.com/canadiancynic/status/31126947178221568)
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 28, 2011, 11:53:03 PM
"Recalibrate" is great. Earlier today someone from Egypt (I think) tweeted that Mubarak was "proroguing," and I really had to sit on my Canadian hands not to try to make a joke out of that.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on January 29, 2011, 12:00:34 AM
This is fucking excellent:  The Fall of the American Wall (http://zeroanthropology.net/2011/01/28/the-fall-of-the-american-wall-tunisia-egypt-and-beyond/).
Quote
Juan Cole (http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1-/7865-what-the-tunisian-revolution-and-wikileaks-tell-us-about-american-support-for-corrupt-dictatorships.html)   has argued convincingly that American foreign policy, largely on   auto-pilot in late second-term Bush mode, has been willing to sacrifice   everything and everyone in the name of counterterrorism and national   security. Not everyone is willing to continue being sacrificed, and not   for the pursuit of American interests over, above, and against their   personal freedoms and feeding their families. What Cole most likely   would not intend to suggest is that the U.S.’ special relationship with   Tunisia emerged only with Bush. Instead, that particular relationship extends back (http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0390/9003007.htm)   almost as far as the founding of the U.S. More recent, under the   31-year rule of dictator Habib Borguiba (predecessor of Zine El Abidine   Ben Ali), his regime received circa $750 million annually, and then   advanced military support as well. Between 1987 and 2009, under Ben Ali,   the U.S. signed $349 million (http://www.warisbusiness.com/news/tunisia-before-the-riots-631-million-in-us-military-aid/) in sales of military hardware to Tunisia. After 2009, with Obama in office, Tunisia was to be sold military helicopters in a $282 million sale (http://www.warisbusiness.com/news/tunisia-before-the-riots-631-million-in-us-military-aid/). The Pentagon announced (http://www.warisbusiness.com/news/tunisia-before-the-riots-631-million-in-us-military-aid/):   “This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national   security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a   friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force   for economic and military progress in North Africa.” Ben Ali’s Tunisia,   as one article put it, was a “model U.S. client (http://mwcnews.net/focus/analysis/8258-ben-ali-tunisia-was-model-us-client.html).”

  With Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s statement about its Egyptian partner–”our   assessment is that the Egyptian Government is stable and is looking for   ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian   people (http://www.america.gov/st/democracyhr-english/2011/January/20110126124733elrem0.3939325.html)“–the U.S. has clearly taken the wrong side, and it’s   something that it will likely pay for. Except that it has been paying,   lots, for a long time: “The   US has provided Egypt with $1.3 billion a year in military aid since   1979, and an average of $815 million a year in economic assistance. All   told, Egypt has received over $50 billion in US largesse since 1975 (http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0412/p07s01-wome.html).” This report (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33003.pdf)   from the Congressional Research Service, put the economic assistance   figure at over $2 billion annually, a sure sign to Mubarak that he could   put off any “reform” indefinitely as long as Washington bankrolled his   power. The U.S. has also invested a large amount of advanced weaponry (http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/egypt.htm)   into Egypt’s so-called “defense.” Numerous reports, including   observations by senior opposition leaders in Egypt, point to the   spontaneous, self-organizing, youth-driven protests in Egypt, emerging   from a gigantic part of the population that has borne the brunt of   extreme levels of unemployment, miserably low wages, and harsh state   control over their daily lives with nearly 30 years of “emergency” rule   in force. They know all about the clenched fist, and who paid for it.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 29, 2011, 12:39:36 AM
Buckdog about some Egyptians bypassing the web ban using a Vancouver website:
 
http://buckdogpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/01/some-online-egyptians-bypassing.html (http://buckdogpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/01/some-online-egyptians-bypassing.html)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 29, 2011, 05:38:20 AM
Finally got into al Jazeera this AM (http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/). They are interviewing some government 'official' in Egypt - a member of the ruling party.
 
He says the protesters are mainly looters and criminals; the injured/killed are mostly members of the security forces.
 
Criminals! Criminals! They are all criminals running about Cairo. Ominiously he comments that the politically they have done many, many thing and warn that now the Army cannot allow the streets to be ruled by these criminals.
 
Robert Fisk has apparently made his way to Egypt and has this to say about the 'authorities' interaction with the protestors,
 
Quote

They were brave, largely peaceful, these tens of thousands, but the shocking behaviour of Mubarak's plainclothes battagi – the word does literally mean "thugs" in Arabic – who beat, bashed and assaulted demonstrators while the cops watched and did nothing, was a disgrace. These men, many of them ex-policemen who are drug addicts, were last night the front line of the Egyptian state. The true representatives of Hosni Mubarak as uniformed cops showered gas on to the crowds.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 29, 2011, 07:27:45 AM

- snip -
 
More recent, under the   31-year rule of dictator Habib Borguiba (predecessor of Zine El Abidine   Ben Ali), his regime received circa $750 million annually, and then   advanced military support as well. Between 1987 and 2009, under Ben Ali,   the U.S. signed $349 million (http://www.warisbusiness.com/news/tunisia-before-the-riots-631-million-in-us-military-aid/) in sales of military hardware to Tunisia. After 2009, with Obama in office, Tunisia was to be sold military helicopters in a $282 million sale (http://www.warisbusiness.com/news/tunisia-before-the-riots-631-million-in-us-military-aid/). The Pentagon announced (http://www.warisbusiness.com/news/tunisia-before-the-riots-631-million-in-us-military-aid/):   “This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national   security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a   friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force   for economic and military progress in North Africa.” Ben Ali’s Tunisia,   as one article put it, was a “model U.S. client (http://mwcnews.net/focus/analysis/8258-ben-ali-tunisia-was-model-us-client.html).”
  - snip -
   “The   US has provided Egypt with $1.3 billion a year in military aid since   1979, and an average of $815 million a year in economic assistance. All   told, Egypt has received over $50 billion in US largesse since 1975 (http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0412/p07s01-wome.html).” This report (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33003.pdf)   from the Congressional Research Service, put the economic assistance   figure at over $2 billion annually, a sure sign to Mubarak that he could   put off any “reform” indefinitely as long as Washington bankrolled his   power.

This nonsense - and there's much more of it in US-sponsored dictatorships around the world - has no doubt contributed to where Amerika stands today: an eye-popping $14trillion national debt and a $1trillion yearly deficit. They could start getting out of this big hole by shutting down US bases all over the world and stop playing world cop, but Obama, like Bush, shows NO inclination of doing so. :annoyed
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 29, 2011, 09:00:24 AM
The plainclothes "thugs" -- Al Jazeera was getting some great footage of the way they operate yesterday from the roof of the hotel AJ operates in in Cairo. At first I was confused by what I was seeing -- there'd be scuffles and struggles between two small groups of men, but at first they all looked like protesters to me. Took a moment for the penny to drop -- one of those groups is plainclothes agents, and the fact that people can't tell until they grab you at the last moment is the point.  Vicious stuff.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on January 29, 2011, 10:00:29 AM
Another demo here outside the Egyptian Consulate today Saturday, 1000 rue de la Gauchetière West, métro Bonaventure, 2pm-4pm.

Demos announced today in Toronto and London Ontario.

Edited to add: An article in English about the Egyptian demos here, from the Gazette:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/todays-paper/hear+envoy+says/4189863/story.html
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 29, 2011, 10:53:20 AM
It seems that Mubarak has appointed Omar Suleiman as his vice President. Suleiman has been head of the 'Intelligence' branch of the government.
 
As far as I know, it was to Mr. Suleiman's operation that the US occasionally 'renditioned' people to (poor syntax there) to have their fingernail ripped out to get some intelligence then may or may not have had.
 
It is the first vice-President Mubarak has ever appointed.
 
The government is trying to say that this will satisfy the demands for his standing down - but all the people al Jazeera is talking keep emphasizing that Mubarak still does not get it. He has got to go.
 
The government keeps insisting that the President is elected and must be deposed by the electoral process. Again, the government insists that the people in the streets are a MOB and are looting and burning. The al Jazeera correspondent told his that standing down is well within a democratic process.
 
So far that is not even a nice try - appointing someone from a shaky background of uncertain powers is just not going to do it. al Jazeera, bless it, is not accepting this spin, and is commenting that if there were any mobs they were in the last election stealing the vote. To counter the claim that the people on the street are looting and burning they just show their live feed of the peaceful protests.
 
Apparently even the American State dept says this is not enough.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: brebis noire on January 29, 2011, 11:00:11 AM

Also wanted to post this:
 
 (http://www.enduringamerica.com/storage/EG1.png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1296245608372)

Thanks dBO and skdadl (further upthread) for posting this. I'm posting it to my Facebook; hopefully there are no copyright issues.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 29, 2011, 11:11:41 AM
It ran originally in the Atlantic, but I doubt it's their photo. See if they gave someone credit. I don't think you have copyright issues on FB, but the Atlantic would b/c they're profiting from publication. Still, it's good for us to include credits where we can.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 29, 2011, 11:18:12 AM
Now Mubarak has appointed Ahmed Shafik as Prime Minister. He has been a military type and head of the Civilian Air Directory.
 
Interviews with protesters still repeat that the object is for Mubarak to go and no appointing of 'good 'ol boys' to anything will just not cut it.
 
With no police on the streets the protesters themselves have undertaken to guard some buildings and even direct traffic.
 
The government reports that eight prisoners have been killed in a prison 'disturbance'. (Not much  information there.... but I wonder if they had some touchie intelligence and dare not be released.)
 
Considerable shooting is being heard in an area south of the prison ... a rather expensive and exclusive area. The army still has made no move against the masses on the streets who continue to defy the curfew.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 29, 2011, 11:24:36 AM
It ran originally in the Atlantic, but I doubt it's their photo. See if they gave someone credit. I don't think you have copyright issues on FB, but the Atlantic would b/c they're profiting from publication. Still, it's good for us to include credits where we can.
Yes there would probably be copyright issues; it's by an AP photographer.
 
ETA: the photo with the soldiers with mustaches is by AP / Lefteris Pitarakis, who took this photo too.
 
ETA: here's this photo with its caption (photo 6):
 
http://www.newstimes.com/news/articleGallery/As-unrest-sweeps-Egypt-president-refuses-to-quit-984512.php#photo-6 (http://www.newstimes.com/news/articleGallery/As-unrest-sweeps-Egypt-president-refuses-to-quit-984512.php#photo-6)
 
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 29, 2011, 12:04:05 PM

Thanks dBO and skdadl (further upthread) for posting this. I'm posting it to my Facebook; hopefully there are no copyright issues.
That image was taken from this news source that I posted a link for (http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2011/1/28/egypt-and-beyond-liveblog-black-hole-or-another-day-of-revol.html), at the 2010 mark.  No photo credit was attributed there.
 
eta: I was unaware that it had appeared in the Atlantic too.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: brebis noire on January 29, 2011, 12:12:01 PM
Not that I want to derail this thread with copyright issues, but I don't really have any remorse in reposting a photo that's easily available online at different sites. 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 29, 2011, 12:29:50 PM
Well, I don't think it's so much a question of copyright or remorse, just etiquette to give credit where you can. I scrolled back to the Atlantic link, and they say only "via kateoplis" -- click through, and you discover that's someone who has put the photo up at tumblr w/o a credit.

So I guess it's on the loose now. Call me a pedant, but I still think it would be interesting to know who took the picture -- Reuters? a citizen? At some point, given how famous it has become, we probably will find out.

ETA: Or I just could have read Holly Stick. LOL.

Yes: not copyright -- etiquette. Mystery solved.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: brebis noire on January 29, 2011, 12:36:13 PM
Oh for sure - I'm not insensitive to questions of copyright and giving credit where it's due. I also find it interesting to know, and to think about who was doing the picture-taking. I also think that photographers, writers, etc. have to adapt to new technologies and realise that whatever they put out there is going to be easily passed along.
It's not even like a photographer can claim they have the negatives anymore - the image is bits on a chip; as such it's that much more ephemeral and transmissible. Interesting issue.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 29, 2011, 12:46:22 PM
That's why I think that AP is never going to bother pursuing anyone except, maybe, the Atlantic and other commercial outlets, who obviously need to hire Holly Stick. *grin*

AP actually did start getting sticky about copyright last year, including abt quotations that in the U.S. are considered "fair use." (That's less clear here.) I forget how all that worked, but for a while people were refusing to link to them.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 29, 2011, 01:05:36 PM
well, well, well.  In Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/29/egypt-protest-economy-opinions-contributors-shadi-hamid.html):   
Quote
But this isn't just about Egypt. This is about a regional architecture that is crumbling, and more rapidly than anyone had imagined. There have been unprecedented protests in Yemen and rejuvenated opposition in Jordan, another close U.S. ally and the second-largest per-capita recipient of American assistance. In other words, Tunisia and Egypt are part of a broader regional trend. If Egypt--considered to have a robust security apparatus--falls, then all bets are off elsewhere. [...]
 
Democracy--with the accountability, popular legitimacy and peaceful resolution of conflict it so often brings--is the only avenue to long-term stability. Otherwise, authoritarian regimes will appear stable--until they're not. And, by then, it's too late.
It's a guest opinion piece, but still.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 29, 2011, 01:16:56 PM
In 1980 the US, as usual, called for Cuba to empty it's jails - in the mistaken impression that they were filled with freedom desiring, America loving wrongfully imprisoned democrats.
 
Castro did. It turned out that he also emptied his facilities of thugs, thieves and some mentally troubled people. OOPs!
 
When the protesters in Tunisia called for the jails to be emptied, they were .. or at least emptied of the (as above) thugs and thieves. This caused no end of grief for the population.
 
Mubarak is trying the same thing .. for what the security people in mufti cannot do, he has allowed some prisoners loose upon Cairo.
 
The army is not a police organization and so ranges from poor to worse in protecting the populace ....  the protesters have set up some committees to protect their property and lives.
 
Some of the worst looting happened in the main Museum in Cairo ..... the repository of Egypt's history and heritage. The trouble is that these people, who even linked arms to surround the building, are even less qualified for this duty. The army brass are calling for people to obey the curfew so they can protect such things as the Museum - but defying the curfew is one of the main icons of the entire protest.
 
 
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 29, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
One of the tweets I read drew attention to the differences between the street protests in Tunisia and Egypt, in the striking absence of women in the latter.


This NYTimes slide show (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/world/middleeast/30egypt-protest.html/?src=mtwt&twt=mnytimes) confirms the observation.




Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 29, 2011, 05:06:53 PM
There are a lot of women in the huge groups that I've seen on Al Jazeera -- young and old(er) both, too, milling about quite freely. It's true that when confrontations happen, it will be smaller groups of men, usually young, who rush forward to clash with police, but I was really struck by how many women were out, at least in daytime.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 29, 2011, 06:26:32 PM
A few not half-bad US opinion pieces online about the Egyptian *uprising* (merci, Mona Eltahawy).

Salon (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/01/29/weiss_egypt_scared)

Mother Jones (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/whats-happening-egypt-explained)

HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/29/why-egypt-matters_n_815863.html#s232358&title=Strong_US_Ally)



Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 29, 2011, 06:41:31 PM
Don't know about some of the claims I see around about "the Arab world." I mean, there is and there isn't an "Arab world." At a popular level, that's been a powerful concept for many since Nasser argued for it, but there are very different peoples in those countries and they have lived for generations with quite different political realities.

More important in the short term is that the dictators are of different kinds, the most important factor being their relationships with the US and Israel. Some have been US puppets (Egypt, Jordan, sort of Saudi Arabia, and Yemen, the failed SA); some are very anti-American (Syria, Iraq before the invasion and likely again); some are just corrupt and/or crazy (Libya, Tunisia), and so on. Lebanon is not a dictatorship but is heavily anti-US and Israel.

That doesn't tell us immediately what the people would want from an uprising, but anti-American feeling is a stronger driving factor in some places than in others. Plus, it's clear that, on their side, the US wants some regimes to change but not others.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 29, 2011, 06:45:40 PM
Michael Moore has some tweets on Egypt, including:
 
http://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/31430217662734336 (http://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/31430217662734336)
 
http://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/31454771642638336 (http://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/31454771642638336)
 
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 29, 2011, 07:20:18 PM
Jane Mayer (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/01/who-is-omar-suleiman.html) on Omar Suleiman, whom Mubarak made his VP. Suleiman is a beast. The US gov like him, of course.

There's gossip around, though, that Mubarak may be going to Israel, so decisions like appointing Suleiman may end up meaning little.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 29, 2011, 07:36:33 PM
Jane Mayer (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/01/who-is-omar-suleiman.html) on Omar Suleiman, whom Mubarak made his VP. Suleiman is a beast. The US gov like him, of course.

There's gossip around, though, that Mubarak may be going to Israel, so decisions like appointing Suleiman may end up meaning little.

The people that al Jazeera interviewed spoke well of Suleiman.... but his connection with Mubarak condemned him. One said it was a matter of time .... last year he would have been welcomed (Mubarak's son is not a popular alternative) - but as he was made VP by the old dictator he was unacceptable. 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on January 29, 2011, 07:44:11 PM
Nasser and related Arab nationalists went far beyond the generally-accepted and useful concept of the Arab World http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world to speak of the Arab nation.

The Arab world generally includes the (in whole or in part) Arabic speaking countries in the Middle East, or Mashreq and of North Africa or the Maghreb. Note that Egypt, while physically African, is a Middle Eastern and not a Maghrebi country. The dividing line is at the point in Libya where the desert touches the sea. (The Maghreb once included Spain and Sicily).

This cultural area does not deny the great differences between the countries in terms of history, standard of living, and ancestry. Some here have called selves "North American", which includes three sovereign states and many more nations, and is also extremely varied in terms of languages, cultures, standards of living and outlooks. Despite the gulf in many terms between Québec and France, I feel a hell of a lot closer to a Parisian than to a gun-and-god-toting person from the US Bible Belt, just as an example...

Of course each country has its own history, and some (the countries of the Maghreb, for example, with their Berber roots and French overlay) are much closer than others, but Tunisia influenced Egypt, in a way it hasn't yet influenced the Sahelian countries just south of the Sahara (we can hope).

Thanks to the late Norma Salem (Université de Montréal) for this conceptual framework.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 29, 2011, 08:35:53 PM
I should have thought that Suleiman's role as head of Egypt's notorious intelligence service would condemn him in anyone's eyes. I don't know who Al Jazeera were talking to, but I'm surprised to hear that. Suleiman was Washington's man on the illegal "renditions" program, oversaw the US's transfer of kidnapped persons to Egypt to be tortured. And I can't believe the Egyptians don't know the things he's been responsible for practised on his own people. 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 29, 2011, 09:11:45 PM
I should have thought that Suleiman's role as head of Egypt's notorious intelligence service would condemn him in anyone's eyes. I don't know who Al Jazeera were talking to, but I'm surprised to hear that. Suleiman was Washington's man on the illegal "renditions" program, oversaw the US's transfer of kidnapped persons to Egypt to be tortured. And I can't believe the Egyptians don't know the things he's been responsible for practised on his own people.

It was not just one person, but a series of protesters ..... I certainly agree with you ... but then we are not Egyptians ....
 
Dr. Dawg links to a piece by Dan Gardner about the tender mercies of the Egyptian security service - Suleiman's boyz - toward gays. It is disgusting.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 29, 2011, 09:18:25 PM
IIRC, and mind you, that was mostly in French that I heard and read about Nasser, he spoke of Arab nations and nationalism.

Here's one online reference (http://cojs.org/cojswiki/Quotes_by_Gamal_Abdel_Nasser,_1954-1967.). 

What is an "Arab World" - a concept created by 'murricans?


eta: I just read what you wrote, lagatta.  Are there any online resources or links for Norma Salem that you recommend?
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on January 29, 2011, 09:42:17 PM
Unfortunately she died a bit too soon (as did my Sicilian thesis advisor) but googling Norma Salem (perhaps including Montreal) you will find references to her most seminal works.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 30, 2011, 03:44:18 AM
The Israeli are taking a look at Sharm el-Sheikh in the Sinai. (Where croghan almost ended up in 1979.)With the disappearance of the Egyptian Police forces the army has taken over security of the town. Something specifically forbidden by the Camp David agreements.
 
There is also a rumor that Mubarak has fled there and the Israelis are cool with the actions of their good puppy.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 30, 2011, 04:48:28 AM
I noticed a difference in al Jazeera coverage Saturday afternoon. Now I see why, from the Guardian:
 
Quote

9.38am: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/30/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-5)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/30/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-5 The Egyptian government plans to shut down al-Jazeera operations in Egypt, according to Reuters citing the state news agency Mana.
"The Information Minister ordered ... suspension of operations of al-Jazeera, cancelling of its licences and withdrawing accreditation to all its staff as of today," a statement said.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 30, 2011, 09:05:20 AM
 is livestreaming now (see upper right), focused on Tahrir Square -- don't know whether this is some kind of workaround, but it's amazing. You can hear fighter jets "buzzing" the protesters, as the announcer is saying -- oy! ear-splitting.  (http://english.aljazeera.net/AJE[/URL)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 30, 2011, 09:11:40 AM
Hmmn. Can't seem to fix that coding. Here's AJE (http://english.aljazeera.net/) anyway.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 30, 2011, 09:18:55 AM
Hmmn. Can't seem to fix that coding. Here's AJE (http://english.aljazeera.net/) anyway.

Clinton says she wants free and fair elections in Egypt ... howcome she did not say that during the latest election?
 
Now she is revealing how the US has pressured Mubarak ..... suuuure, says I.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 30, 2011, 09:47:04 AM
Because they're now being buzzed very closely by a helicopter, people in the square, we're told, are beginning to lie down in some kind of formation, preparing to spell out some message to the skies, it seems. Observer can't see yet what they're spelling.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on January 30, 2011, 10:03:53 AM

Clinton says she wants free and fair elections in Egypt ... howcome she did not say that during the latest election?
 
Now she is revealing how the US has pressured Mubarak ..... suuuure, says I.

I can't stand Hillary - I assume everything she says is a lie. But I feel the same way about Obama, now, too. :annoyed
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 30, 2011, 10:32:25 AM
Here is a problem for the US. The Muslim Brotherhood has come out and said they could support Mohamed ElBaradei for government leader.
 
Outside of Mubarak supporting his son, he seems like the only real alternative. He would allow for a peaceful transition of power - the stated position of the US. (This is contrary to the objective of the protesters ... Mubarak has to go is their starting point, not their conclusion.)
 
The US, in the person of that great democract, John (the 'stash) Bolton, can be said to be less than a fan of Baradei - he trashed Bolton/Wolfowitz/Bush et al over the matter of WMDs in Iraq - and they have never forgiven him.
 
Still, he seems to be the people's choice - for Obama/Clinton to be consistent they will have to slap John down and tell him to swallow his bile as they follow the democractic instincts of the people. The US Dept of State seems to be missing the whole point here ..... Mubarak is NOT acceptable - he has got to go. The US is still hedging it's bets on this matter, even as it pretends to support democracy.
 
As well it seems to be generally accepted now that the major looters and thugs are either members of the security service and/or criminals let out of prisons.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 30, 2011, 10:52:05 AM
Oh! Oh!  Hillery is toast. During an interview she mentioned that Pres, Mubarak has been a loyal supporter for some time - "let us not just look at today.
 
That is looking back, not forward. Forward is the byword of Obama .... looking forward has kept a multitude of criminals, traitors, torturers and out and out theives out of the hands of his DoJ.
Quote

 
On the other hand, I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards. … My orientation is going to be moving foward. (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/11/obama-special-prosecutor-torture/)
Obama, 2009.
 
Now Hillery is looking back to accomodate Mubarak, a criminal, traitor, thief and torturer.
 
(Betcha the firepuppies have a good time with this one.  :)) )
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 30, 2011, 11:01:20 AM
The Americans hate El Baradei because he showed them up -- the neocons aren't the only ones on the hook for that; everyone who supported the invasion is.

We were hearing for a while that the Americans were trying to opt for Suleiman, but contrary to what you heard yesterday, Croggy, it seems clear that the Egyptians know about him and do not want him -- I've seen lots of such statements flying by on AJE and Twitter. He's the State Department choice, or he was, but things are going very fast now.

For the US, the Muslim Brotherhood is a bogeyman, but not for Egyptians, even if they're not supporters. It's true that that's where the roots of Al Qaeda were, although officially they've denounced each other, and the U.S. has demonized the MB movement everywhere (eg, Hamas). But if there's a coalition, they belong in it.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 30, 2011, 11:36:05 AM
Quote
For the US, the Muslim Brotherhood is a bogeyman, but not for Egyptians, even if they're not supporters. It's true that that's where the roots of Al Qaeda were, although officially they've denounced each other, and the U.S. has demonized the MB movement everywhere (eg, Hamas). But if there's a coalition, they belong in it.
     
 
 You are probably correct about the popular impression of Suleiman - he is the wizard behind the curtain for the security services in all it's various guises. This is even if he originally came from the army that is very well respected.     
 
The US's animosity toward the MB is another result of their blinkered vision of democracy, best exemplified by their attitude toward the democratic and fair election of Hamas in the PA controlled territory.      That al Qui'da and the MB come from the same roots is less important than the fact that the brotherhood has been a staunch and powerful opposition to bin Laden's bunch - something State seems to miss.     
 
el Baradei has announced that he is amenable to being an interim leader until elections can be held. If Hillery wants to look forward, not back, she would do well to grab this opportunity and ride it to conclusion.     
 
Shades of S. Harper .... al Jazeera interviewed someone who claimed that elBarahei had spent too much time out of the country to be allowed to form a government.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 30, 2011, 11:48:31 AM
The thing about demonization in the US (and to a degree here): there are always two different sets of people who do it: the true believers (neocons, AIPAC, Tea Party) and the total cynics who will exploit anything.

I doubt that, eg, Dick Cheney gives a flying fig about Islam, but if he thought he could scare a large portion of the US population by hyping the "Islamist" bogeyman, then that's what he was going to do, and so that's what he (and others) did.

Many of our politicians and media front-persons are like that. They don't actually believe in anything beyond their own power, although they often drape themselves in belief. The discourse is so dumbed-down it's painful.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 30, 2011, 12:31:47 PM
... Shades of S. Harper .... al Jazeera interviewed someone who claimed that elBarahei had spent too much time out of the country to be allowed to form a government.

 :)) Yes, they proffered those observations at Radio-Canada too, though tempered with information that in his absence, the MB had become a bit of a disorganized mess.  There are many outside Egypt who value ElBaradei (http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/publication-type/media-releases/2011/mena/Egypt-Crisis-Group-Condemns-Detention-of-Mohamed-ElBaradei-and-Violence-against-Demonstrators.aspx) for his knowledge, skill and wisdom though.
 
I doubt that Ignatieff could also claim that he left Canada to avoid torture and/or assassination.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on January 30, 2011, 12:39:30 PM

I doubt that Ignatieff could also claim that he left Canada to avoid torture and/or assassination.

No, he returned to Canada to promote it.  :p

Croghan, I too heard that the looting and violence is connected to Mubarak letting loose some criminals.

In the meantime, here is an appeal from Code Pink:

http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?id=5667
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on January 30, 2011, 01:15:38 PM
I'm not a fan of The Telegraph, but this piece is interesting (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289686/Egypt-protests-Americas-secret-backing-for-rebel-leaders-behind-uprising.html).

Quote
Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising              

The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian     uprising who have been planning “regime change” for the past three years,     The Daily Telegraph has learned.     
     


ETA:  Had to fix formatting which always seems to be necessary when I copy and paste...
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 30, 2011, 01:56:11 PM
I haven't read that cable (beyond what the Telegraph summarizes), but it doesn't surprise me much, in spite of what we know of US support for Mubarak. The Merkins do this everywhere: they support the dictator in power but they make sure to stay in touch with any promising alternative group at the same time.

The Telegraph is sensationalizing -- although also revealing -- what is sop for the Merkins. They make it sound as though the Merkins had actually switched horses when they began to cultivate these dissidents, but I doubt that's true. They just cultivate anyone they can -- a number of different Merkin agencies are doing this stuff all the time, often at cross-purposes --  hoping to stay ahead of the curve. But they don't switch horses until they're sure, as we can see so clearly today.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 30, 2011, 02:49:26 PM
ElBaradai with the protestors at Tahrir Square:
 
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/01/30/egypt-uprising.html (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/01/30/egypt-uprising.html)
 
Also, a few people did some damage in the Egyptian Museum, but the army has secured it again and the damage is repairable.  Most Egyptians want to protect it (see 7:30 pm entry)
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/30/egypt-protests-live-updates (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/30/egypt-protests-live-updates)
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/30/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-60 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/30/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-60)
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on January 30, 2011, 02:53:03 PM
The US usually conducts it's soft but transparent regime change manipulation through the Open Society Initiative or it's more robust and clandestine interference through the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

As for NED's transparent support for initiatives in Egypt, the list of very small grants is here:

http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/middle-east-and-northern-africa/egypt (http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/middle-east-and-northern-africa/egypt)

It reads like a mini version of larger funding given out by the World Bank for similar projects. So the fact that the US or NED is somehow involved with sparking this pro-democracy rebellion sound like PR spin and opportunist to me.

Holly slipped in. I bet some of the thugs and criminals Mubarak released are responsible for the museum damage. I also heard a rumor that the military is behind the protesters.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 30, 2011, 03:06:31 PM
I got the impression from someone (Gwynne Dyer? and others?) that the army is more likely to be sympathetic to the people, whereas the police are more brutal (and plainclothes police may have been getting into fights with protestors). 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 30, 2011, 05:06:16 PM
We can all climb down from our tenderhooks ..... a tweet from Kady says that (loose) Cannon will hold a press conference @ 17:30.
 
   
Quote
   Will tweet interesting bits! RT @HannahThibedeau (http://twitter.com/HannahThibedeau): Frgn Affairs Min Lawrence Cannon to hold Egypt newser at 1730. #CBCNN (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23CBCNN) will cover live. #hw (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23hw)
     Certainly a load off my mind.  :o
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 30, 2011, 05:08:12 PM
I got the impression from someone (Gwynne Dyer? and others?) that the army is more likely to be sympathetic to the people, whereas the police are more brutal (and plainclothes police may have been getting into fights with protestors).

That seems clear from AJE coverage, anyway. The people don't seem to be having trouble with the military at all (and vice versa), except for all that buzzing from the air force about 4 p.m. their time (the curfew hour, which has been defied).

The police haven't been on the streets of Cairo since yesterday, although there were reports they were being sent out again. The people seem to hate them, and that's where the clashes were until late yesterday. Ordinary people have been shown doing security in their own neighbourhoods -- traffic direction too.

Some of the released prisoners, anyway, were political prisoners -- from one huge prison, a lot of Palestinian activists. There was one moving interview with a fellow who made it from the prison to Rafah and then through one of the tunnels back to Gaza -- we saw his family reunion.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 30, 2011, 05:24:07 PM
By the way, Cross Country Checkup is on now about Egypt; Rex just finished talking to Mona Eltahawy.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on January 30, 2011, 05:28:27 PM
Apparently there has been some trouble in Suez.
 
al Jazeera had some very impressive footage of an incident where the army took down some people they judged to be looters. A group of protesters initially supported them, but when they found out who had been captured they said no - these are with us.
 
The members of the army disputed this and .... in a very impressive display of: "We do not care about your guns and tanks - let these people go." the protesters convinced the army commander to free those captured.
 
Oh ,, just heard ..... Mubarak's flunkies are saying that millions and millions of Egyptians support Mubarak. When asked where are all these Mubarak supporters the flunky said they are staying home.
 
 :rotfl
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 30, 2011, 06:39:42 PM
Laurence Cannon had a press conference about bringing Canadians out of Egypt (let my people go! :p ); but he stomped off after 6 questions.  Kady was tweeting it; maybe the stomping off will be on the TV news?:
 
http://twitter.com/kady/status/31848901854101504 (http://twitter.com/kady/status/31848901854101504)
 
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 30, 2011, 07:21:16 PM
Here's one response to the Egyptian uprising published in Ha'aretz, deconstructed here (http://elizrael.tumblr.com/post/3019439154/translation-of-selected-parts-from-benny-ziffers). 
Quote
Benny Ziffer a leftist “liberal” commentator on Haaretz wrote this piece today, proving that you don’t have to be a right-winger in Israel in order to be racist Orientalist. Reports in the Israeli media about the uprising in Egypt are full of stereotypes that I’ve discussed at length here, but this piece is disgusting even according to Israeli media standards. [...] "I always repeat the saying by the French-Romanian philosopher Emil Cioran that the most corrupt regime will always be better than the best-intentioned revolution. Because no one dies from corruption, but in revolutions people die, die because of the excitement of one side or another. Are the riots in Egypt worth so much that people should die for them?" [...] Ziffer goes on to say that that Israel and the IDF act worse than the Egyptian regime in the occupied Palestinian territories and that Israelis should keep quiet about Egypt. Then he adds that Egypt has had corruption for thousands of years and despite that its culture flourished.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 30, 2011, 07:38:35 PM
An analysis by STRATFOR suggesting the Egyptian police are redeploying and that the police and the army may work together to clear the streets of demonstrators.
 
I don't know anything about STRATFOR or how reliable it may be; the link was tweeted.
 
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20110130-egyptian-police-redeploying?utm_source=specialreport&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110130&utm_content=readmore&elq=0882daa8a38044b8bc75adaeac35d596 (http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20110130-egyptian-police-redeploying?utm_source=specialreport&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110130&utm_content=readmore&elq=0882daa8a38044b8bc75adaeac35d596)
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on January 30, 2011, 09:47:11 PM
Protests in Sudan, too! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12320534) Video.

Quote
There have been protests in Khartoum, with some people calling for   President Omar al-Bashir to step down in what appears to be an echo of   recent events in Tunisia and Egypt.
Activists said that dozens of people were arrested.
The unrest came on the day it was announced that some 99% of   South Sudanese voted to secede from the north in region's recent   independence referendum.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 30, 2011, 10:46:56 PM
Protests in Gabon also:
 
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/01/30/gabon-clashes.html (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/01/30/gabon-clashes.html)
 
http://af.reuters.com/article/gabonNews/idAFLDE70S0K620110129 (http://af.reuters.com/article/gabonNews/idAFLDE70S0K620110129)
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 31, 2011, 12:30:16 AM
Another good read (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/30/AR2011013001794.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) though from US perspective. 
Quote
For all the guff being spoken about Twitter and social media, the uprising in Cairo appears to be a very old-fashioned, almost 19th-century revolution: People see other people going out on the streets and decide to join them.We are surprised, and no wonder. For the past decade, successive American administrations have sometimes paid lip service to democracy and freedom of speech in the Arab world. Some American organizations, official and unofficial - the National Endowment for Democracy comes to mind - have supported independent human rights activists in Egypt and elsewhere. Some American journalists, such as my Post colleague Jackson Diehl, have cultivated Egyptian democrats, interviewed them, written about them. But to American presidents and secretaries of state of both political parties, other issues - oil, Israel and then the war on terrorism - always seemed more important. Our aid subsidized the Egyptian army and police, and the Egyptians know it. [...]Hence the gloom. If there are potential leaders in Egypt, other than the stuffy and somehow unlikely Mohamed ElBaradei, then we don't really know them. If there is an alternative elite, we haven't worked with it, as we had worked with the alternative elites in Central Europe in the 1980s. George W. Bush's administration spoke a good deal about "democracy promotion" but then allowed the idea to become confused with the invasion of Iraq.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on January 31, 2011, 09:18:59 AM
Another good read (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/30/AR2011013001794.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) though from US perspective. 
Quote
For all the guff being spoken about Twitter and social media, the uprising in Cairo appears to be a very old-fashioned, almost 19th-century revolution: People see other people going out on the streets and decide to join them.We are surprised, and no wonder. For the past decade, successive American administrations have sometimes paid lip service to democracy and freedom of speech in the Arab world. Some American organizations, official and unofficial - the National Endowment for Democracy comes to mind - have supported independent human rights activists in Egypt and elsewhere. Some American journalists, such as my Post colleague Jackson Diehl, have cultivated Egyptian democrats, interviewed them, written about them. But to American presidents and secretaries of state of both political parties, other issues - oil, Israel and then the war on terrorism - always seemed more important. Our aid subsidized the Egyptian army and police, and the Egyptians know it. [...]Hence the gloom. If there are potential leaders in Egypt, other than the stuffy and somehow unlikely Mohamed ElBaradei, then we don't really know them. If there is an alternative elite, we haven't worked with it, as we had worked with the alternative elites in Central Europe in the 1980s. George W. Bush's administration spoke a good deal about "democracy promotion" but then allowed the idea to become confused with the invasion of Iraq.

On the NED site I linked to earlier, the largest contribution ($300k+) was to unionizing organization. All other contribution were less than $30k to different civil society and human rights initiatives. That is not much of an investment, nor is it concentrated to any potential opposition group.

I think what is truly impressive, at least for me, is that this is an organic, home-made revolution. No outside prodding or behind the scenes manipulation. I think western governments were totally unprepared for this outcome.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on January 31, 2011, 12:17:34 PM
Here is a must-see video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThvBJMzmSZI
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on January 31, 2011, 01:18:10 PM
Amy Goodman interviews Naoual  (http://www.democracynow.org/2011/1/31/women_protest_alongside_men_in_egyptian)el Saadaoui speaking from Cairo (http://www.democracynow.org/2011/1/31/women_protest_alongside_men_in_egyptian), on Democracy Now.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 31, 2011, 02:33:26 PM
Eric Margolis:
 
Quote
...Washington has previously  lauded Mubarak for “wise leadership” and “stability”. The US pays Egypt over $2 billion annually not to confront Israel, to jail Islamists, and to keep Hamas in the open air prison of Gaza. The US Congress provides half of Egypt’s food. Since Israel gives Congress its marching orders on the Mideast, it also  exercises extraordinary influence over Egypt...

http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/the-american-raj-in-flames.aspx (http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/the-american-raj-in-flames.aspx)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on January 31, 2011, 03:13:25 PM
I RT Margolis's tweets when I see them, but I wish he'd insert links to his place. Canadians know who he is, but a lot of my followers wouldn't know that it is worth looking for his longer pieces. Ok: that means I should be going to his place and tweeting him with links m'self, doesn't it. Sigh.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on January 31, 2011, 04:50:27 PM
Robert Fisk yesterday and today:
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-egypt-death-throes-of-a-dictatorship-2198444.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-egypt-death-throes-of-a-dictatorship-2198444.html)
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/how-much-longer-can-mubarak-cling-on-2198987.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/how-much-longer-can-mubarak-cling-on-2198987.html)
 
And Mound of Sound cites Chris Hedges:
 
http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.com/2011/01/another-warning-on-egypt-chris-hedges.html (http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.com/2011/01/another-warning-on-egypt-chris-hedges.html)
 
(the Hedges link is very slow to load for me)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on February 01, 2011, 02:26:02 PM
Ezra Levant has been writing stupid articles and tweets about Egypt and is getting the twitterverse annoyed:
 
http://twitter.com/InklessPW/status/32419416519999488 (http://twitter.com/InklessPW/status/32419416519999488)
 
http://twitter.com/TabathaSouthey/status/32480735562563585 (http://twitter.com/TabathaSouthey/status/32480735562563585)
 
Nahlah Ayed is right there in Egypt:
Quote
There are as many women here in tahrir square as men.
http://twitter.com/NahlahAyed/status/32389506116100097 (http://twitter.com/NahlahAyed/status/32389506116100097)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 01, 2011, 02:33:59 PM
He wrote something stupid in the Sun too, but I didn't save the link. Why does he take such extreme anti-human views?
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 01, 2011, 04:13:54 PM
Just spoken by Mubarak: Après moi le Deluge.
 
He says he shall remain until he passes over the reigns of power following the soon to be held elections.
 
Cannot really tell the reaction yet .... but the crowd does not sound happy.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 01, 2011, 04:17:43 PM
I cannot understand the Arabic being chanted in the square ... but al Jazeera translates it as: "Fuck you. GO."
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on February 01, 2011, 05:17:03 PM
I cannot understand the Arabic being chanted in the square ... but al Jazeera translates it as: "Fuck you. GO."

Good for them.  :applause

ETA: Good links at LabourStart:

http://www.labourstart.org/egypt/
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 01, 2011, 05:20:20 PM
There are some pro-Mubarak supporters in Alexandria, preaching off the top of a tank right now on Al Jazeera English.  Makes me wonder who's paying them...and how much!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 01, 2011, 10:39:29 PM
Pardon my 2 in a row posts, but this analysis (http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/516/why-mubarak-is-out) of Egyptian politics is excellent. And, pardon me if it's already been posted. 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 02, 2011, 08:54:50 AM
Things sound quite bad in Cairo right now. A large-ish (hundreds) group of pro-Mubarak supporters have descended on Tahrir Square and are engaging the protesters in what sounds like some fighting. Reports that all the pro-Mubaraks are youngish men (20s and 30s), no women, no children.

Western governments should have stopped this days ago by just telling Mubarak he's through. Disingenuous to say that they don't want to look as though they're interfering: the people have made their will clear, and the West has the power to make it happen. (Plus they interfere anyway.)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 02, 2011, 11:06:06 AM
This is a catastrophe.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on February 02, 2011, 12:24:42 PM
Live picture of Tahrir square:
 
http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/1221258968/ID=1565830896 (http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/1221258968/ID=1565830896)
 
Hat tip
http://saskboy.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/amazing-live-coverage-in-egypt/ (http://saskboy.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/amazing-live-coverage-in-egypt/)
 
 
ETA: John Doyle on the TV coverage:
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/television/john-doyle/the-chaos-in-egypt-stumps-the-tv-newscasts/article1889231/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/television/john-doyle/the-chaos-in-egypt-stumps-the-tv-newscasts/article1889231/)
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 02, 2011, 11:16:46 PM
Looks like Mubarak gave the order to take out the protestors - they are hemmed in on every side, and someone is firing on them.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on February 03, 2011, 02:22:03 AM
Thugs and mercenaries employed by Mubarak are brutalizing the protesters, as well as reporters (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/02/egypt-cnns-anderson.html).
 
Protesters are being beaten up, shot, burned by incendiary devices and killed.  This news item in Haaretz (http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/five-killed-as-pro-mubarak-forces-clash-with-protesters-on-day-10-of-egypt-riots-1.340987) calls the uprising "pro-democracy demonstrations" and "riots". 
 
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 03, 2011, 08:24:49 AM
Journalists assaulted by Moubarak's thugs include veteran Radio-Canada reporter Jean-Françoise Lépine and especially cameraman Sylvain Castonguay, who was badly beaten. Their lives were saved by soldiers who rescued them from the lynch mob:

http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/International/2011/02/02/009-lepine-cameraman-egypte.shtml

Odd, nothing in English at cbc.ca/news - yet I heard this story at Mtl CBC as well as Radio-Canada.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 03, 2011, 09:02:34 AM
A Globe and Mail reporter has been arrested -- back with details later b/c that went by me very fast.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 03, 2011, 11:47:35 AM
Here's the G&M's report (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/crisis-in-egypt/egyptian-army-rounds-up-journalists/article1892801/) on what is happening to journalists in Cairo.

It sounds as though the army are taking them into custody when they check their credentials, then releasing them later. That may be a protective measure -- who can tell?
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 03, 2011, 01:28:22 PM
I guess everyone is hoping this won't turn into a rerun of Tiananmen Square, but there sure are signs of that right now.

Omar Suleiman, now the VP, former military intelligence chief, head torturer, and war criminal, gave an interview on AJE about an hour ago that was smarmy correct for Western consumption but basically reaffirmed the ancien regime. Like, they're not going anywhere. Thanked the young people now protesting for their love of country, but maybe they should go home now and let the system work. Elections take time, you know. It was like that. Not that I expected anything better from the bastard.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: k'in on February 03, 2011, 02:00:14 PM
Very early this morning I heard a report from a journalist from one of the big US networks.  She said there had been a recent attitude change in the military, very scary.  Up until then they had felt somewhat tolerated given the circumstances.  Gut feeling was that things were going to get ugly, and witnesses weren't wanted.  Trying to stay optimistic that the detained journalists have been released and not expelled.  Mubarak seems to be a dead ender, otherwise he would have stepped down by now.  This is not looking hopeful.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on February 03, 2011, 03:08:01 PM
Hints that the military may act against Mubarak:
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/egyptian-army-disperses-mubarak-supporters (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/egyptian-army-disperses-mubarak-supporters)
 
http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.com/2011/02/hints-that-egypts-military-has-nearly.html (http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot.com/2011/02/hints-that-egypts-military-has-nearly.html)
 
One can hope, at least.
 
ETA: a Swedish reporter was stabbed and is in hospital:
 
http://www.thelocal.se/31826/20110203/ (http://www.thelocal.se/31826/20110203/)
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Antonia on February 03, 2011, 06:56:34 PM
Quote
Omar Suleiman, now the VP, former military intelligence chief, head   torturer, and war criminal, gave an interview on AJE about an hour ago   that was smarmy correct for Western consumption but basically reaffirmed   the ancien regime.

If you saw what I saw then it wasn't an interview with AJE but a sitdown with the very regime-friendly Egyptian state TV which AJE retelecast
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 03, 2011, 07:12:07 PM
CBC reports:
 
Average income of Egyptian in 2010: $5558.00
 
Hosni Mubarak net worth: $17 billion
 
Mubarak family wealth: $70 billion
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on February 03, 2011, 07:36:15 PM
CBC reports:
 
Average income of Egyptian in 2010: $5558.00
 
Hosni Mubarak net worth: $17 billion
 
Mubarak family wealth: $70 billion

That is disgusting. This is who Obama and other western democracies are protecting? I knew he was an authoritarian prick but I had no idea he was a freaking thief. He is now in the illustrious company of the Shah of Iran, the Marcos and the Duvaliers (Papa and Baby Docs).
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 03, 2011, 11:24:25 PM
CNN reporting that armoured personnel carriers full of riot police are moving in on the move, but I don't see them near the square yet.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 04, 2011, 08:33:32 AM
The video feed from the Square went down last night, sparking fears that there would be bloodshed as the protestors were removed with a) no video feed and b) no journalists allowd to see it, but apparently all that has NOT happened and it's once again a peaceful protest, with a live feed established again, although on CNN it's on and off sporadically.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 04, 2011, 08:47:41 AM
There is talk today -- if it has reached the Guardian, it could have some meaning -- that the US is now actively engaged behind scenes in getting Mubarak out immediately. Their plan, unfortunately, involves handing power over to Suleiman, hardly an improvement in real terms.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 04, 2011, 09:16:20 AM
Evidently the demonstration planned here in support of ALL the uprisings in the Arab world is part of a Pan-Canadian Day of support, so I'm sure there are demos elsewhere to be posted. Hey! I can bring my Palestinian flag - it has sure seen more than a few demos.  I'm posting this in Egypt rather than Tunisia simply because the thread is more active now - Tunisia will continue though with the hunt for the thieves holed up in Canada.

English follows French:

La lutte pour la justice continue ....
.... de la Tunisie à l’Egypte et au reste du Monde arabe

Journée Canadienne de soutien à la démocratie dans le Monde arabe

Après la chute de Ben Ali en Tunisie, la révolution est en cours en Egypte contre Moubarak, et gagne d’autres pays arabes. Ces soulèvements populaires exigent en premier lieu la justice. Ce sont des luttes pacifiques pour le développement économique et social par le biais de la démocratie.

Aux aspirations légitimes du peuple égyptien, Moubarak répond par la provocation, la violence et le mensonge, soutenu d’une manière inadmissible par les gouvernements des pays d'Europe, du Canada et des Etats-Unis. C’est inacceptable, ce sera contre-productif.

Nous appelons la totalité du monde libre à soutenir la marche de l’Egypte et du monde arabe vers la démocratie. Nous demandons au gouvernement canadien de ne pas trahir les idéaux et les valeurs de ses citoyens.

Le peuple égyptien lutte avec courage ; dans la phase critique actuelle, nous, citoyens canadiens, le soutenons pour la justice et la démocratie.

Venez manifester avec vos amis, apportez banderoles et drapeaux du Canada, du Québec et de tous les pays arabes.

Samedi 5 février 2011, de 14 heures à 15h30
Départ Dorchester Square (angle Peel/René-Levesque)

Pour les médias et l'information, s'il vous plaît contacter: Mohamed Kamel  (514) 863-9202; Nabil A. Malek (514) 703-3723
 

--------------------------------------------------------------
(English Callout)

The Struggle for Justice Continues

Form Tunisia to Egypt, and the Rest of the Arab Region

Pan-Canadian rally to support democracy in the Arab countries

After the fall of Ben-Ali in Tunisia and the revolution against Mubarak in Egypt, the revolution is spreading to all Arab countries.. The peoples' movement is basically a call for justice. It is a peaceful struggle for economical and social development via Democracy.

The defiant and deceptive actions of Mubarak with the pathetic stand of some of the western governments in general and the US in particular vis-a-vis the legitimate aspirations of the Egyptian people are unacceptable and counter-productive.

We call on the whole free world to support the movement of democratization in Egypt and the rest of the Arab region. We call on Canada to live up to the values of freedom, justice and democracy.

The struggle has begun. Canadians will continue supporting the brave people of Egypt who are now at a very critical point in their struggle for JUSTICE and democracy.

Please show up with your friends and with banners, flags (Canadian, Quebecois, and Arab Countries)

Saturday February 5, 2011: from 2:00pm to 3:30 pm
Starting from Dorchester Square (corner Peel/René-Levesque)
 
For media and information, please contact: Mohamed Kamel  (514) 863-9202; Nabil A. Malek (514) 703-3723
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on February 04, 2011, 09:19:37 AM
It seems Harper won't even budge as much as Obama and is steadfast in his supporting slow reform, just like his Israeli buddies.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 04, 2011, 10:03:58 AM
Not to mention good ole ... Silvio Berlusconi: http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFLDE7131GX20110204

Bit more dirt on these two old shits, and a whole lot of Grecian Formula:

http://egyptianchronicles.blogspot.com/2010/10/ruby-is-not-mubarak.html
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 04, 2011, 11:47:30 AM
There is talk today -- if it has reached the Guardian, it could have some meaning -- that the US is now actively engaged behind scenes in getting Mubarak out immediately. Their plan, unfortunately, involves handing power over to Suleiman, hardly an improvement in real terms.

Would that plan be acceptable to the protestors, I wonder? Getting Mubarak out should mean getting his cronies out, as well. :strike
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 04, 2011, 01:32:53 PM
Hosni ..Hosni .... when this began the protesters were chanting they wanted you out ... now from your shilly-shally they are now saying they want you arrested, tried and hung.
 
What part of fuck off do you not understand? Obama and Biden may just cut you loose - even as McCain calls all this democracy stuff in the Middle East a virus.
 
This Democracy Now report is both scarry and inspiring.  (http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/4/video_report_on_the_battle_for)
 
The last 5 minutes is amazing.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on February 04, 2011, 05:01:04 PM
Fascinating NPR piece about the military in Egypt (http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/04/133501837/why-egypts-military-cares-about-home-appliances?ft=1&f=1001&sc=tw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter).


ETA fern hill posted an awesome YouTube:  Egypt, We Support You (http://scathinglywrongrightwingnutz.blogspot.com/2011/02/egypt-we-support-you.html) at DJ!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on February 04, 2011, 05:49:19 PM
That video is awesome.  :applause (I shared it on Facebook.)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 05, 2011, 08:47:36 AM
I've found these call-outs for Canadian locations of the worldwide demo:

Vancouver: Start: Feb 5 2011 - 1:00pm - 3:00pm
Location(s) Vancouver Public Library, Central Library Robson and Homer Vancouver, BC

And this endearing Torontonian appeal:

'Mubarak, you're fired!' Rally for freedom and democracy in Egypt

Saturday, February 5
Assemble at 1:00 p.m. Queen's Park (south side)

TTC: Queen's Park Nearest intersection: University Avenue and College Street

March begins at 2:00 p.m.
Please dress warmly.

Evidently there are also demos - well, obviously in Ottawa, in London, Winnipeg, Calgary and Edmonton. I don't have details on these or any others.


Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 05, 2011, 02:05:59 PM
Oh those crazy, crazy member of Hamas.  :))
 
Egypt as much as Israel have been their jailer in Gaza. But now, the Egyptian troops at the Sinai end of Gaza have been forgotten by their military masters ... so the people of Gaza are shipping food the OTHER WAY through the tunnels.
 
As reported by Haartz:  (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/gaza-feeds-hungry-egyptian-troops-in-role-reversal-1.341316)
Quote

The sources said Palestinian merchants in Gaza have also been smuggling vegetables, eggs and other staples into Egypt, where store owners have run out of stock because normal supplies are cut off by the unrest -- reversing the usual flow of goods.

Whatever has happened to the blood thirsty anarcho-commie-islamofundamentalist-killers we have all grown to know and love through the pages of the NY Times, Wapo, WSJ and National Post.  :confused
 
Ezra, Ezra! Explain these things to me. 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 05, 2011, 03:45:45 PM
Five-yr-old leads chant in Alexandria yesterday. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMyp-IUlpVY)

ETA: Walk like an Egyptian (http://www.support-julian-assange.com/forums/opmaak-egypte1280.gif) (drawing)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 05, 2011, 05:11:03 PM
From a Facebook note:

Quote
A Statement from the protesters at Cairo's Tahrir Square to the Egyptian people
 
The President's promises and the bloody events of Wednesday February 2
 
We    the protesters who are currently on sit-in at Tahrir (liberation)    square in Cairo since January 25, 2011 strongly condemn the brutal    attack carried out by the governing National Democratic Party's (NDP)    mercenaries at our location on Wednesday February 2, under the guise of    "rally" in support of President Mubarak. This attack continues on    Thursday February 3. We regret that some young people have joined these    thugs and criminals, whom the NDP is accustomed to hire during    elections, to march them off after spreading several falsehoods    circulated by the regime media about us and our goals. These goals that    aim at changing the political system to a one that guarantees freedom,    dignity and social justice to all citizens are also the goals of the    youth. Therefore we want to clarify the following.
 
Firstly,   we  are a group of young Muslim and Christian Egyptians; the   overwhelming  majority of us does not belong to political parties and   have no previous  political activism. Our movement involves elderly and   children,  peasants, workers, professionals, students and pensioners.   Our movement  cannot be classified as "paid for" or "directed by" a   limited few  because it attracted millions who responded to its emblem   of removing  the regime. People joined us last Tuesday in Cairo and   other  governorates in a scene that witnessed no one case of violence,   property  assault or harassment to anyone.
 
Secondly, our   movement is  accused of being funded from abroad, supported by the   United States, as  being instigated by Hamas, as under the leadership of   the president of  the National Assembly for change (Mohamed El-Baradie)   and last but not  least, as directed by the Muslim Brotherhood. Many   accusations like  these prove to be false. Protesters are all Egyptians   who have clear and  specific national objectives. Protesters have no   weapons or foreign  equipment as claimed by instigators. The broad   positive response by the  people to our movement's goals reveals that   these are the goals of the  Egyptian masses in general, not any internal   or external faction or  entity.
 
Thirdly, the regime and   its paid media falsely blame us,  young demonstrators, for the tension   and instability in the streets of  Egypt in recent days and therefore   for damaging our nation's interests  and security. Our answer to them   is: It is not the peaceful protesters  who released the criminal   offenders from prison to the unguarded streets  to practice looting and   plundering. It is not the peaceful protesters  who have imposed a curfew   starting at 3 o'clock PM. It is not the  peaceful protesters who have   stopped the work in banks, bakeries and gas  stations. When protesters   organized its one-million demonstration it  came up in the most   magnificent and organized form and ended peacefully.  It is not the   protestors who killed 300 people some with live  ammunition, and   wounding more than 2,000 people in the last few days.
 
Fourthly,    President Mubarak came out on Tuesday to announce that he will not be    nominated in the upcoming presidential election and that he will modify    two articles in the Constitution, and engage in dialogue with the    opposition. However the State media has attacked us when we refused his    "concession" and decided to go on with our movement. Our demand that    Mubark steps down immediately is not a personal matter, but we have    clear reasons for it which include:
 
His promise of not to   run  again is not new. He has promised when he came to power in 1981   that he  will not run for more than two periods but he continued for   more than 30  years.
His speech did not put any collateral for not   nominating his  son "Gamal", who remains until the moment a member of   the ruling party,  and can stand for election that will not be under   judicial supervision  since he ignored any referring to the amendment of   article 88 of the  Constitution.
He also considered our movement a   "plot directed by a  force" that works against the interests of the   nation as if responding  to the demands of the public is a "shame" or   "humiliation".
As  regards to his promise of conducting a dialogue   with the opposition, we  know how many times over the past years the   regime claimed this and  ended up with enforcing the narrow interests of   the Mubarak State and  the few people who control it.
 
And   the events of Wednesday  proved our stand is vindicated. While the   President was giving his  promises, the leaders of his regime were   organizing (along with paid  thugs and wanted criminals equipped with   swords, knives and Molotov  bombs) a brutal attack plot against us in   Tahrir square. Those thugs and  criminals were accompanied by the NDP   members who fired machine guns on  unarmed protesters who were trapped   on the square ground, killing at  least 7 and wounding hundreds of us   critically. This was done in order  to end our peaceful national popular   movement and preserve the status  quo.
 
 
Our movement is Egyptian - Our movement is legitimate- Our movement is continuing
 
The youth of Tahrir Square sit-in
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 05, 2011, 05:13:57 PM
Oh, and this (http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=235100) from the Tehran Times is totally awful, if true!

Quote
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Israeli, U.S. generals taking control in Egypt
                                 Tehran Times Political Desk
   

    TEHRAN – Two senior Israeli officers and   three U.S. generals have arrived in Cairo to take control of the   military command in Egypt, an anonymous source has told the Tehran   Times.              
  The command council is headed by a general named Sisson, the source   said. One of the options that the generals are weighing is staging a   military coup in Egypt. 

The decision shows that the United States and Israel are   seriously worried about the fate of Hosni Mubarak’s regime as   unprecedented protests have gripped Egypt. 

Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 05, 2011, 08:47:49 PM
Very spirited demo here in support of all the Arab world struggles on a pleasant, mild day. At first the turnout seemed disappointing but it built.

Non-political aside: I'm sure others have experienced demos as occasions for very boring people one knows and avoids to buttonhole, eh?

End of aside.

Resounding cries of "dégage" (colloquial and familiar French for get out or scram, as chanted by the Tunisian demonstrators) in downtown Mtl. Mubarak, also the Tunisian "voyous" holed up here...

Saw many friends I hadn't seen in a while. One, an Egyptian lady of a certain age, was talking about the poor people from towns outside Cairo and Alexandria huddled there with nothing to eat and no money to buy food in cities. People trying to take them food and medicinal supplies turned back.

A very sad placard depicting a young man "mon meilleur ami" who had lived from some time in the 1980s until he was gunned down in 2011 in Cairo. :(

Very glad I went.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on February 06, 2011, 02:00:13 PM
A lot of CBC live coverage today.  Suleiman has agreed to some concessions such as a free press.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/02/03/f-egypt-live.html (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/02/03/f-egypt-live.html)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 06, 2011, 02:51:23 PM
Quote
Suleiman has agreed to some concessions such as a free press.

well ain't that fucking big of him.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 06, 2011, 03:35:11 PM
Quote
Suleiman has agreed to some concessions such as a free press.

well ain't that fucking big of him.

That's no doubt in exchange for retaining torture.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 06, 2011, 04:35:48 PM
Revolutionary logistics -- eg, where do they pee? (http://www.slate.com/id/2284118/pagenum/all/)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on February 07, 2011, 12:40:52 AM
Eric Margolis:
 
Quote
...Overlooked so far in the reporting over the crisis in Egypt is the fact that no matter how much Egyptians would like to loosen pervasive American influence over their nation, Egypt remains dependant on the US for food, as do many other Arab nations... 

http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/for-egypt-bread-is-as-important-as-freedom.aspx

ETA: about Egypt's population problem:

http://www.grist.org/article/2011-02-05-egypt-has-a-population-crisis-as-well-as-a-democracy-crisis
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 07, 2011, 02:48:59 AM
Cheney calls Mubarak a good friend, US ally ::)  (http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/132-132/4865-cheney-calls-mubarak-a-good-friend-us-ally)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Antonia on February 07, 2011, 05:27:06 PM
 :mad2 :annoyed ::)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on February 07, 2011, 08:43:18 PM
Meanwhile, the Harper government is actually interfering with an arms length agency (National Library and Archives) to insist that this piece of propaganda get shown:


"Iranium": Dangerous Bomb-Iran Documentary Directed by Right-Wing Israeli Extremist, Promoted by Neocon Richard Perle (http://www.alternet.org/media/149810/%22iranium%22%3A_dangerous_bomb-iran_documentary_directed_by_right-wing_israeli_extremist,_promoted_by_neocon_richard_perle?page=1)

Daniel Pipes of all people is on the Board of the so-called non-profit organization producing this POS.
 (http://www.alternet.org/media/149810/%22iranium%22%3A_dangerous_bomb-iran_documentary_directed_by_right-wing_israeli_extremist,_promoted_by_neocon_richard_perle?page=1)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 07, 2011, 09:46:53 PM
sparks .... sorry:
 
Quote

Weeks after complaints from the Iranian government cancelled a screening of Iranium at Library and Archives Canada, a sold-out audience filled the theatre Sunday evening to take in the film -- a documentary that is sharply critical of Iran's nuclear arms program (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/movie-guide/Sold+crowd+views+Iranium/4234327/story.html)

The devious mind of croghan27 now considers that perhaps they pulled an Ann Coulter.  (http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100323/coulter_canada_100323/20100323/?hub=OttawaHome)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 07, 2011, 10:17:39 PM
Ultra-ultra-disgusting.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on February 08, 2011, 09:40:30 AM
Croghan, they definitely are pulling an Ann Coulter. Next on their agenda is getting it shown at U of O and Carleton. Let the redux begin.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on February 08, 2011, 12:21:08 PM
fern hill blogged about Wael Ghonim:    'I am not a hero'   (http://scathinglywrongrightwingnutz.blogspot.com/2011/02/i-am-not-hero.html)   
Quote
Wael Ghonim got released (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/20112722535988460.ht) from 12 days of military police custody.

Ghonim is 30 years old, father of two, and head of Google's Middle East operations.

And now we know what Egyptian intelligence knew. He is the admin of the Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk) that is credited with helping to organize the uprising, 'We are all Khaled Said', referring to the young man tortured to death in Alexandria.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: k'in on February 09, 2011, 04:51:57 PM
From The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/09/egypt-army-detentions-torture-accused):

Quote
While pro-government protesters have also been detained by the army   during clashes in Tahrir Square, it is believed that they have been   handed on to police and then released, rather than being held and   tortured.

Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on February 10, 2011, 02:01:40 PM
CBC radio says Mubarak apparently is about to announce he's stepping down.
 
The army decided; unsure if the army will accept Suleiman as replacement:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/world/middleeast/11egypt.html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/world/middleeast/11egypt.html?_r=1)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 10, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
Nope. Mubarak is hanging tough. He is clearly out of touch with reality. I predict a military coup next.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 10, 2011, 04:26:14 PM
My TweetDeck is going so fast with the Mubarak speech and reactions from the square to it that I can hardly follow, and compy crashed (altho' that's not so unusual for other reasons). (I follow too many tweeps. Ah, the filing.)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 10, 2011, 04:35:00 PM
CBC just received an email that said the crowd will march to the Presidential Palace tomorrow and drag Mubarak out of ofiice, dead or alive. Probably just angry rhetoric, but CNN just said demonstrators are calling Friday to be 'a day of blood'.  :o
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 10, 2011, 05:01:56 PM
I'd thought I'd read/heard that Mubarak was being ousted by the military...wtf?
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on February 10, 2011, 05:30:49 PM
The NYC story I linked to below talked about that, but it has been updated since his speech.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 10, 2011, 05:47:50 PM
Nope. Mubarak is hanging tough. He is clearly out of touch with reality. I predict a military coup next.

"...out of touch with reality" is an excellent way to say it, Boom Boom. First he condescends calling them 'my children' (would'nt Harper like to try that) then he talks about some mythical negotiations .... negotiations my ass ..... GET OUT is not conditional ... it is imperative.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 10, 2011, 06:17:09 PM
Hosni ..... you are tying up the internet .... .it is difficult to get into al Jazeera and Twitters is only a wish.. too busy.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 10, 2011, 06:37:04 PM
CNN says: 1) We are waiting for the second communique* from the Egyptian Army, 2) Obama is going to make a statement about getting f*cked over by Mubarak.  :))
 
 
 
*apparently the first communique from the Army earlier today said they would not fire on the protestors.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: k'in on February 10, 2011, 08:07:27 PM
Taking a cursory look at the economic numbers over Mubarak's reign, it's little wonder the guy has the "Emperor Has No Clothes" complex.  It doesn't appear that he inherited a boatload of cash, and as Eric Margolis notes (http://ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/for-egypt-bread-is-as-important-as-freedom.aspx), Egypt continues to be a beggar state.

Mubarak is reportedly the world's richest person, net worth estimated at 70 billion dollars.  He does seem to have mastered the art of the corruption; a sociopath on steroids.  And he's gotten away with it for years.  Yet, it seems like there has been no shortage of courting "strategic partners" over the years, willing to fork over tons of cash to him as long as he's their stooge. 

Damn straight Egyptians are outraged. 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 10, 2011, 08:23:26 PM
Who knows what's going on behind the scenes, but Washington's public statements are 'way out of synch with popular feeling in Egypt and most other places, near as I can tell.

It's very hard to see where this is going unless both Mubarak and Suleiman just go ... which sounds unlikely atm.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 10, 2011, 08:27:27 PM

Mubarak is reportedly the world's richest person, net worth estimated at 70 billion dollars.

CBC last week reported Mubarak himself is worth $17billion, his extended family $70billion. Probably all looted from the Egyptian treasury.
 

 
Damn straight Egyptians are outraged.

Yes, and someone on either CBC or CNN tonight (I've been going back and forth) said an investigation will be underway as soon as Mubarak steps aside or is forced out to get his $billions back in to the Treasury.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 10, 2011, 08:50:37 PM
  President Obama's statement on Egypt (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/10/president_obamas_statement_on_egypt)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 10, 2011, 09:00:25 PM
I'm thinking there's a military coup coming.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 10, 2011, 09:34:04 PM
I'm thinking there's a military coup coming.

I think it was a comment from thwap that pointed out that Mubarak, Suleiman and most of what passes as a ruling council are member of the military - who's couping whom? :confused
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 10, 2011, 09:59:15 PM
I'm thinking it'll come from within the military.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 10, 2011, 11:42:55 PM
Mubarak has a huge network of informants, secret police, thugs, army generals, and a country-wide gulag of prisons. I just can't imagine this conscripted army turning on civillians who are their brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters - to shore up a widely-disliked dictator/thug, especially in the face of a popular uprising.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 10:17:02 AM
Egypt’s Mubarak, Family Arrive in Sharm El-Sheikh, Arabiya Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-11/mubarak-arrives-in-sharm-el-sheikh-amid-resignation-calls-al-arabiya-says.html) 
 
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak (http://topics.bloomberg.com/hosni-mubarak/) and his family have arrived in the resort town of Sharm El-Sheikh (http://topics.bloomberg.com/sharm-el--sheikh/) in the Sinai Peninsula, Al Arabiya (http://www.alarabiya.net/english/) television and the Associated Press reported today, without saying where they got the information.
 
Mubarak left Cairo from a military airbase in the suburbs and was accompanied by Lieutenant General Sami Hafez Enan, chief of staff of the Egyptian Army, the Chinese news agency Xinhua reported, citing an unidentified airport official.
 
 

He's probably gone for a weekend of snorkelling. :mad2
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 11:05:44 AM
MUBARAK STEPS DOWN - ARMY TO GOVERN
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 11, 2011, 11:24:15 AM
My Twitter feed is going too fast to read. I think you could say this is a popular development.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 11:27:36 AM
Military Governing Council to make public statement soon.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 11:38:09 AM
CNN: Military to govern only until free and fair elections can be held - will take a while to establish political parties, maybe a year.
 
Obama to respond at 130 pm EST.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 11, 2011, 12:11:50 PM
Hmm.  I called it.  :))
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 11, 2011, 12:20:50 PM
Not clear to me what is happening to Suleiman and the others already appointed to do the transition. I don't think that the army consider Suleiman alien to them, exactly, but I don't know. They didn't consider Mubarak such until, apparently, today.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 12:30:01 PM
The army has sacked the entire cabinet, including Suleiman.
 
Swiss gov't to freeze all Mubarak acocunts.
 
Just saw a report: Egyptian army moving to freeze all Mubarak accounts in Egypt.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 11, 2011, 01:38:23 PM
It'd be nice to get a linky-link or two with some of these messages, peeps.  Just saying... :)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 11, 2011, 01:42:01 PM
Here you go, Berlynn:

http://forafreeegypt.blogspot.com/ blog from here; articles in English, French, Arabic.

Celebration today outside the consulate (1000, rue de la Gauchetière W) at 4 pm, and a pan-Arab-world demo/celebration tomorrow at Carré St-Louis.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 11, 2011, 01:45:58 PM
 :applause Merci! :hug
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 11, 2011, 02:10:33 PM
 العربية - usually translaterated as Shukran in English and Choukrane in French. Good to know hereabouts, with our large Arab-speaking communities!

I do know how to write that word in (the beautiful) Arabic script but confess I cut and pasted as I'm not familiar enough with the Arabic keyboard and where to find it.

My friend D, who is originally from Alexandria Egypt but moved here with her parents as a small girl, sent me that site.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 11, 2011, 02:20:59 PM
The things is, the statements are coming thick and fast -- you can watch a good basic news outlet, like Al Jazeera or CBC or the Guardian (the latter two are probably watching the former), but because things are just unfolding, the media often don't know for sure, and things change, plus anyone with time to publish is probably behind events right now.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 02:33:31 PM
Obama to speak in 20 minutes - 3pm EST.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Berlynn on February 11, 2011, 02:34:01 PM
I just can't spare the time to be online the whole day -- much as I'd like to!  In the midst of this great joy from Egypt is some hard-to-take news from a dear friend...and the usual fambly and work life...

That said, I've been Facebooking and tuning in to Al Jazeera as I'm able.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 11, 2011, 02:47:48 PM
Here, (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/feb/11/egypt-hosni-mubarak-left-cairo) eg, you can read the Guardian's liveblog backwards through the day -- that will give you some sense of how things happened and continue to happen. If you want it to update automatically, be sure to click the ON.

ETA: Obama is supposed to speak on the hour. I dunno: he may say something useful, but then again, hopes are not high.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: k'in on February 11, 2011, 03:47:41 PM
Is Suleiman gone too?  Mubarak/Suleiman are interchangeable/entries 1 A & B to Egyptians.  Clinton and Biden up until very recently seemed to be yapping with him.  So much for CIA intelligence (oxymoron) - Panetta admits he gets his info from teevee.

Quote
The timing was unfortunate for Panetta, given that the intelligence   committee is looking into the CIA's failure to anticipate either the   Tunisia or Egyptian uprisings. The CIA said later that Panetta had based   his prediction of Mubarak's departure on Thursday on news reports   rather than intelligence. Mubarak's departure a day later spared   Panetta, who can now argue he was only out by 24 hours.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/11/us-welcomes-develpments-egypt (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/11/us-welcomes-develpments-egypt)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 11, 2011, 03:54:16 PM
Guardian liveblog @ 7.54:

Quote
Al Arabiya television is reporting that the Egyptian military will announce the dismissal of the cabinet, the suspension of the upper and lower houses of parliament, and that the head of the constitutional court will form an interim administration with the military council.

Al Arabiya is also reporting that Amr Moussa will step down as secretary general of the Arab League within the next few weeks – and he is talked of as a leading contender in the up-coming presidential elections.

So who knows? Suleiman looks like a cadaver on tv.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 04:10:45 PM
I read on CNN hours ago that VP Suleiman has been dismissed along with the entire Mubarak cabinet.
 
Obama's speech was okay, nothing truly offensive as far as I can recall (had to go out for an hour as soon as it was over).
 
CNN also reported all of Mubarak's accounts have been frozen in Egypt and Switzerland.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 04:52:49 PM
Just in from CNN:
 
- $1.5billion a year aid has been given to the Egyptian military for respecting the 1979 Camp David Peace Acord between Israel and Egypt (Jordan is the only other Arab country to sign);
 
- 1,000 US troops have been stationed in the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt since 1979 to supervise the Camp David Accord and will likely remain;
 
- US Treasury Dept refuses to comment today on Mubarak financial holdings in the USA.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 05:28:42 PM
Holy shit!!! Did anyone hear Harper's "toothpaste" comment today? I don't think I've ever felt so embarrassed to be Canadian. :mad2
 
Obama was truly eloquent by comparsion, invoking MLK and the Ghana experience.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 11, 2011, 06:22:23 PM
Former ambassador to Egypt Michael Bell says (on P&P) that Canada has no role to play in the formation of the new Egypt because the Harper government is too pro-Israel.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on February 11, 2011, 11:45:23 PM
Holy shit!!! Did anyone hear Harper's "toothpaste" comment today? I don't think I've ever felt so embarrassed to be Canadian. :mad2
 
Obama was truly eloquent by comparsion, invoking MLK and the Ghana experience.

Oh boy, I've missed all the good news and excitement. Have spent the day packing for the move.

What was this "toothpaste" comment, Boom Boom?

I think I mentioned last week or earlier this week that one foreign expert analyst dismissed Harper as irrelevant on this issue.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Mandos on February 12, 2011, 01:31:45 AM
Toothpaste!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4730515
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Mandos on February 12, 2011, 01:32:14 AM
And yes, you should *facepalm*.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Alison on February 12, 2011, 01:48:23 AM
It's perfect, really. Obama quoted MLK; Harper quoted HR Haldeman.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 12, 2011, 08:51:52 AM

What was this "toothpaste" comment, Boom Boom?

Harper On Transition In Egypt: "They're not going to put the toothpaste back in the tube on this one."
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on February 12, 2011, 09:25:49 AM
Thanks! Alison, are you referring to Haldeman's long career as an Ad Man before entering the Nixon admin?

Wow, what a facepalm moment for us. I doubt Harper's embarrassed - he probably thinks he was oh so clever. Idiot.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 12, 2011, 10:43:47 AM
CNN was just talking about Mubarak's $$$billions - the Swiss have frozen all assets connected to the Mubarak family but are not revealing what these are - they want to ensure that no state properties are grabbed by the Mubarak family and associates.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on February 12, 2011, 01:22:48 PM
It's perfect, really. Obama quoted MLK; Harper quoted HR Haldeman.


Scary symmetry.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Alison on February 12, 2011, 01:27:47 PM
Thanks! Alison, are you referring to Haldeman's long career as an Ad Man before entering the Nixon admin?

No, Sparks, Haldeman used the same 'not going to get the toothpaste back in the tube' analogy at the Watergate hearings to explain why they didn't get away with the Watergate break in. I just thought it fitting that while Obama quoted MLK, Steve chose a phrase made famous by a Watergate felon.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 12, 2011, 02:40:36 PM
cnn's Fareed Zakaria did a program this morning - said the military is the real obstacle to a free democracy in Egypt, because they enjoy incredible privileges and in many cases a very lavish lifestyle, and are not likely to give up any of their perks and positions.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: unionist on February 12, 2011, 05:48:19 PM
Does anyone think that Obama quoting Martin Luther King, Jr diminishes the danger he and the U.S. represent to the lives and liberty of the Egyptian people and of all peoples in the region?
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Mandos on February 12, 2011, 06:04:00 PM
Certainly.  But it also makes Harper's quote funnier.
Title: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: deBeauxOs on February 12, 2011, 06:20:41 PM
Does anyone think that Obama quoting Martin Luther King, Jr diminishes the danger he and the U.S. represent to the lives and liberty of the Egyptian people and of all peoples in the region?

What a goofy statement.  Do you think that members of Bread'n'Roses are Obama groupies? 
 
Clearly you haven't bothered reading posts in this thread and other related topics to get a sense of our concern regarding the lives and liberty of people living in Egypt, Tunisia and other countries in that part of the world.
 
But do deport yourself like the classic "poil sur la soupe".
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 13, 2011, 10:53:11 AM
Even torturers need love too.  :hug
 
al Jazeera just had an piece about the Police in Egypt protesting that they did not get all the loot and treats that their officers and leaders did, so do not deserve the bad rep. they have garnered.
 
While the Police, not a military function as became abundantly obvious during the demonstrations, were directed by the morally deficient Ministry of the Interior enabled the slugs of Mubaraks's oppression to operate.
 
V.P. Suleiman is reported to have been present at some torturings, even if it has never been claimed he actually operated the tongs - he may have directed what was to happen, but personally had his underlings perform what they were so practiced in.
 
Somehow, crogh's heart does not reach out to these poor downtrodden people.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 13, 2011, 11:24:12 AM
As many know by now, many years ago I lived with a torture survivor who freaked out and did great damage not only to me but to many other male and female friends, comrades and supporters. (Especially to another torture survivor).

When my f(r)iend was being awakened and trundled around from prison to prison and police station to police station, the police driving the van were chatting in front about the normal concerns of normal husbands, fathers, neighbours. One had a kid who was ill, another a kid who was doing badly in school.

It has always been thus. Strange dissociation. You remember my pics of the fun-loving guards at Auschwitz, posted here a while back? I know from another survivor that the Argentine torturers were keen footie fans, thrilling to the 1978 World Cup.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 13, 2011, 11:28:48 AM
skdadl writing a squib on this right now b/c Suleiman seems to have been involved in the interrogation of Ahmad El Maati, one of the three Iacobucci cases still dragging through the civil courts. That's one reason I'd love to know where Suleiman is. No one seems to know.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 15, 2011, 09:18:18 AM
Here's a link (http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=nixon_and_watergate_tmln&nixon_and_watergate_tmln_legal_repercussions=nixon_and_watergate_tmln_senate_watergate_investigation) to the Watergate Toothpaste Tube comment that Harper borrowed:
 
 
   April 8, 1973: Dean Ready to Testify; Haldeman Advises Continued Silence (http://breadnroses.ca/community/context.jsp?item=a040673deanreadytestify#a040673deanreadytestify)          White House counsel John Dean tells top Nixon aide H. R. Haldeman that he intends to testify about his knowledge of the Watergate conspiracy (see March 21, 1973 (http://breadnroses.ca/community/#a032173deancancer)). Haldeman advises against it, saying, “Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it’s going to be very hard to get it back in.”
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on February 15, 2011, 09:50:57 AM
Harper and Watergate... sounds like a good match!  :))
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 15, 2011, 10:49:37 AM
Would be poifect, except the electorate has changed. In the 70s, people were still shocked by what Nixon did or tried to do. These days? Most Westerners have spent decades yawning at corruption and worse. Maybe the revolutions in North Africa and the ME will wake some of them up, but this is slow work.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 18, 2011, 07:46:07 PM
Don't know what to think about this story yet (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/wikileaks-brings-to-light-suspected-baby-trafficking-from-egypt-to-canada/article1912479/) -- Coptic Christian babies from Egypt apparently "trafficked" to Canada, although that would depend on what one means by trafficked. Curious links between RCMP and EGIS there. Haven't read the actual cables yet.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 20, 2011, 09:37:53 AM
Does anyone think that Obama quoting Martin Luther King, Jr diminishes the danger he and the U.S. represent to the lives and liberty of the Egyptian people and of all peoples in the region?

What a goofy statement. 

Thanks. Glad you didn't call it a mickey-mouse statement.


 :))
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: pookie on February 20, 2011, 10:27:31 AM
Unionist.  You have a weird take of what counts as a "dehumanizing" statement.  You are pretty quick to point out other's slights against you, yet you are the master at using humour to attack and deflect.
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 20, 2011, 11:04:39 AM
People really must read differently -- but I guess we knew that.

Unionist's original comment didn't strike me the way it has two others. He wrote a rhetorical question of a kind that others sometimes write here. If there's sarcasm in it, it didn't seem to me that the sarcasm was directed at BnRers, only at Obama or at the Obama-worship one can run into a lot. Other ppl had made the useful contrast between Harper's vulgarity and Obama's lofty rhetoric, so Unionist added a further detail that we all probably agree on -- Obama is an empty suit, even if he has good writers and table manners. Where is the problem in saying any of those things?

Others have written here things like "Does anyone think that Twitter caused the Egyptian revolution?" On the one hand, the obvious first answer to such questions is "Nobody at BnR is shallow or stupid." But we all know that. And people do ask those rhetorical questions because they have run into wild claims elsewhere and they are feeling momentary annoyance at the phenom.

Let's cut each other a little slack, eh? I was glad to see Unionist join in. Good to see you too, pookie. 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: unionist on February 20, 2011, 12:19:23 PM
Thanks, skdadl, and I'm sorry if my post was seen as offensive to anyone. It wasn't intended that way.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Holly Stick on February 20, 2011, 01:34:10 PM
CBC map of most of the countries having unrest (a commenter mentioned stuff going on in Zimbabwe):
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/01/26/f-unrest-north-africa-middle-east.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/01/26/f-unrest-north-africa-middle-east.html)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 20, 2011, 01:54:59 PM
CBC map of most of the countries having unrest (a commenter mentioned stuff going on in Zimbabwe):
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/01/26/f-unrest-north-africa-middle-east.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/01/26/f-unrest-north-africa-middle-east.html)

I see no mention of Wisconsin .... but that is just* a 'liberal' protest .... trying to change gubberment policies, not about effecting systemic alterations.
 
* By just I do not intend to denigrate the activities going on there. "4 Dead in Ohio" is still with us.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 20, 2011, 02:23:23 PM
CBC have the wrong date for when Bouazizi set himself on fire -- it was 17 December, not in January. He died on 4 Jan.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: pookie on February 20, 2011, 02:31:55 PM
Good to see you too, pookie.

Thanks skdadl.  I read here frequently, but tend not to post. Mostly laziness.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 23, 2011, 07:30:06 PM
I can't stop laughing at this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6iHCFiSqIw) Apparently it's a series of Egyptian tv ads for a kind of cheese called Panda. Why the song is in English, I dunno. A tweep calls the panda Mubarak's alter ego. That makes it funnier.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on February 23, 2011, 08:20:08 PM
Hey - that is True Love Ways, by Buddy Holly - thass an important tune.  :faint
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on February 23, 2011, 08:33:05 PM
Thanks for the reminder. But why is an Egyptian cheese company using it? Many lulz.

I just love watching the panda pounding on the flour, or jumping on the groceries.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on February 23, 2011, 09:55:39 PM
Thanks for the reminder. But why is an Egyptian cheese company using it? Many lulz.

I just love watching the panda pounding on the flour, or jumping on the groceries.

 :)) Don't fuck with a Panda. Not the rolly polly sweetums with a sprit of bamboo clutched inbetween his delicate paws.  :))
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: lagatta on February 24, 2011, 01:23:43 AM
Those are hilarious.

Hey, them A-rabs are almost like real people.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on February 24, 2011, 08:52:47 AM
UN Uselessness (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/564046/201102231857/UN-Uselessness.htm)

And there was political hay made because Canada withdrew itself from having a seat on the Security Council? MSM continually telling us the UN is 'prestigious'. Defund it and start again.

The Brits are sending in SAS to protect their citizens in Libya, Canada meanwhile can't get it's citizens out because of Insurance issues (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/02/24/libya-canadians.html)  Wow, what a sorry ass world we live in.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on March 05, 2011, 05:19:41 PM
Amazing development in Egypt: protestors have taken the security HQ and are liberating tons of files about what has gone on in the torture prisons for years. These are going to constitute a huge leak, potentially very threatening to the US. On Twitter, #AmnDawla
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on March 05, 2011, 05:35:56 PM
Amazing development in Egypt: protestors have taken the security HQ and are liberating tons of files about what has gone on in the torture prisons for years. These are going to constitute a huge leak, potentially very threatening to the US. On Twitter, #AmnDawla
(my bolding)
 
Assange must be chuckling.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on March 05, 2011, 08:03:37 PM
Whoever is tweeting from WL (and it cld be JA b/c there are those endearing typos) is obviously happy, says that what the Egyptians are about to reveal will far outrun WL, or something like that.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Croghan27 on April 10, 2011, 04:41:26 PM
The Jewish community in Winnipeg seems to be thriving. I receive the Jewish Post (http://www.jewishpostandnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=163:bell&catid=45:rokmicronews-fp-1&Itemid=70&utm_source=Jewish+Post+and+News+List&utm_campaign=40f8a18570-Jewish_Post_and_News_April_10th_20114_10_2011&utm_medium=email) (billed as Western Canada's Premier Jewish Newspaper). They usually manage to have something interesting going on - last week was a scholar from Israel who's view's would probably knock Irwin Cutler over backward. This week it was a talk by Michael Bell .... former ambassador to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Canada’s representative in the Palestinian territories.
 
He knows personally many of the actors in the current mid-east drama and tell this story about Nasser and the US:
 
Quote

In the 1950’s the CIA’s station chief in Cairo was Kermil Roosevelt, a cousin of the late president. It seems that Gamel Nasser approached Roosevelt prior to leading the coup that unseated KingFarouk, in order to sound out the Americans about their attitude toward the impending coup.
 
“Roosevelt told Nasser that he would give a green light to the coup, but we (the Americans) would have to talk about democracy and human rights (for the Egyptians), but don’t worry: We don’t mean it.”
(FWIW I believe the name was Kermit Roosevelt and he was FDR's grandson.)
 
He is often quite scathing toward movements that feel they are God directed, notably the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. "
“I have difficulty believing them when they say they believe in democracy and freedom of choice. How can you believe that whey they say: ‘God speaks to us.’ “
 
Not an unreasonable position for a diplomat - yet he fails to mention the 'Jewish settlers' in the west back who claim that God gave them that land several thousand years ago. He slips over the terrific influence that fundamentalist Christians are exerting on the US (and Canadian) governments - Mit Romney follows his Mormon creed and Gary Goodyear, here, will not even acknowledge evolution.
 
It seems an interesting talk and worth reading about.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: skdadl on April 20, 2011, 01:16:29 PM
Egypt is going to join the ICC! (http://english.ahram.org.eg/~/NewsContent/1/64/10377/Egypt/Politics-/Egypt-to-join-International-Criminal-Court-Foreign.aspx)

I know they're not out of the woods yet, as it were, but that is a fantastic decision. And take that, Obama!
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on November 19, 2011, 01:28:41 PM
Egyptians occupying Tahir Square again! (for obvious reasons)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/police-demonstrators-clash-in-cairo/2011/11/19/gIQADMIebN_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/police-demonstrators-clash-in-cairo/2011/11/19/gIQADMIebN_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Antonia on November 19, 2011, 09:11:50 PM
Democracy for some of the people some of the time but only when it's in the West's interests.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on November 21, 2011, 12:28:30 AM
What's happening in Cairo is a savage game. Is this what will come to the West? Even Gandhi knew that there was real uprising/violence in his own ranks if it came to it.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/20/extreme-violence-as-egypt-cracks-down-on-protests/ (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/20/extreme-violence-as-egypt-cracks-down-on-protests/)


Within the last few hours, however, the military has begun responding with gunfire rather than tear gas,
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: sparqui on November 21, 2011, 07:27:26 PM
This has proven to be a bad century to be born in middle and central Asia or north and north eastern Africa. The West has never operated so boldly and without an ounce of regret for all this death and destruction. So will they intervene on behalf of the citizens? Or will they quietly work with the military to install a junta style government?
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on July 03, 2013, 03:39:14 PM
Egyptian military general announces it is official: Morsi has been overthrown and new interim ruler is announcing early elections. Good live coverage on CNN.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on July 03, 2013, 03:42:45 PM
"[Morsi] was not governing Egypt in the interests of Egypt," says Egyptian writer Ahdaf Soueif. "He lost an amazing opportunity to actually have a government that worked for the majority of the people." Soueif is the author of a number of books, including "The Map of Love" and "Cairo: My City, Our Revolution."

Novelist Ahdaf Soueif: By Ignoring Egypt’s Majority, Morsi Begat the Uprising Against His Rule
www.democracynow.org (http://www.democracynow.org/)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on July 03, 2013, 03:49:47 PM
Morsi just tweeted: "Egypt must reject the coup which turns Egypt backwards" (translation)
 
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on July 03, 2013, 04:00:46 PM
Military leader: "a new election and transition to a new government will take 9 to 12 months"
 
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on July 03, 2013, 07:55:09 PM
Just catching up, heard Canada says military coups are just not on, not democratic etc. etc.  Obama huddled with CIA/Pentagon mouthing propaganda platitudes, worrying about the billions they send, ha!


The Egyptian military threw Morsi out in a coup today. Why?
Irish Times reports (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/morsi-role-at-syria-rally-seen-as-tipping-point-for-egypt-army-1.1450612):Army concern about the way President Mohamed Morsi was governing Egypt reached tipping point when the head of state attended a rally packed with hardline fellow Islamists calling for holy war in Syria, military sources have said.


The coup is a set-back for the U.S. , because Egypt – unlike Iraq, Libya, Syria, and Iran – isn’t on the 20 year old list for regime change.
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Toedancer on July 03, 2013, 10:07:11 PM
Special Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force for Crisis Response (formed after Benghazi) is off to Egypt to protect embassy. (and to do other things one assumes)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on July 03, 2013, 11:40:49 PM
I read from friends who have worked in Egypt that it's a continuation of the revolution, with the military protecting the people as it should. No military folks are taking power.
 
 
ETA:  Egypt's revolution continues as grassroots rage against fragmented elite (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/egypt-revolution-continues)
Title: Re: Regime change in Egypt, too?
Post by: Boom Boom on July 04, 2013, 08:32:25 AM
Egypt's top judge was sworn in as the new leader.